University's motivation for having tenure-track positions The 2019 Stack Overflow Developer Survey Results Are In Unicorn Meta Zoo #1: Why another podcast? Announcing the arrival of Valued Associate #679: Cesar ManaraIs it more difficult to score a Tenure Track position in the US when applying from outside?Leaving soft-money job for tenure track position that doesn't start until August: when to tell current advisor?What do I need to include in a tenure-track assistant professor job application cover letter?Research on career path after tenure denial?How to make good use of a small startup fund?Breaking into research oriented tenure-track positions from teaching trackTenure-track offer with other applications in progressI am non-tenured and have been offered a tenure-track position at my current university, but I don't want to stay here long term. What should I do?How is a tenure-track appointment in Sweden?What reference from current insitution is required/advisable for pre-tenure move?

Is there a way to generate uniformly distributed points on a sphere from a fixed amount of random real numbers per point?

One-dimensional Japanese puzzle

What is the padding with red substance inside of steak packaging?

How do I design a circuit to convert a 100 mV and 50 Hz sine wave to a square wave?

The following signatures were invalid: EXPKEYSIG 1397BC53640DB551

Presidential Pardon

Do I have Disadvantage attacking with an off-hand weapon?

Is it ethical to upload a automatically generated paper to a non peer-reviewed site as part of a larger research?

Drawing vertical/oblique lines in Metrical tree (tikz-qtree, tipa)

Is an up-to-date browser secure on an out-of-date OS?

Can I visit the Trinity College (Cambridge) library and see some of their rare books

Can each chord in a progression create its own key?

"is" operation returns false even though two objects have same id

Did the new image of black hole confirm the general theory of relativity?

What force causes entropy to increase?

Why not take a picture of a closer black hole?

What can I do if neighbor is blocking my solar panels intentionally?

What happens to a Warlock's expended Spell Slots when they gain a Level?

Why doesn't a hydraulic lever violate conservation of energy?

US Healthcare consultation for visitors

How to type a long/em dash `—`

Are there continuous functions who are the same in an interval but differ in at least one other point?

University's motivation for having tenure-track positions

Am I ethically obligated to go into work on an off day if the reason is sudden?



University's motivation for having tenure-track positions



The 2019 Stack Overflow Developer Survey Results Are In
Unicorn Meta Zoo #1: Why another podcast?
Announcing the arrival of Valued Associate #679: Cesar ManaraIs it more difficult to score a Tenure Track position in the US when applying from outside?Leaving soft-money job for tenure track position that doesn't start until August: when to tell current advisor?What do I need to include in a tenure-track assistant professor job application cover letter?Research on career path after tenure denial?How to make good use of a small startup fund?Breaking into research oriented tenure-track positions from teaching trackTenure-track offer with other applications in progressI am non-tenured and have been offered a tenure-track position at my current university, but I don't want to stay here long term. What should I do?How is a tenure-track appointment in Sweden?What reference from current insitution is required/advisable for pre-tenure move?










3















Suppose I used to hold a tenure-track math position at a R1 institution, but then I was denied tenure. Assume I do not care about job security (and never cared) and I would be more than happy to keep working under the same conditions and would work just as hard as I worked before tenure denial. The question is: what are the reasons why the department would not be happy to keep me (under the same conditions)?



Some hypotheses:



  • Me working at the department is beneficial for the department at any given point of time. If this is true, then they should be OK with me remaining in my present position.

  • Accepting someone for tenure-track is a calculated risk the department takes (because it can not judge purely from the post-doc record whether one is going to be a great researcher or not). Now that my tenure-track is over, they have figured out that I am not good enough and it is beneficial for them to kick me out.

  • For an average person, the possibility of tenure is a strong motivator. It is beneficial for the department to have someone who has been promised tenure at any given point of time but it is not beneficial once the person knows they won't be given tenure. I am just a weirdo who happens not to care.









share|improve this question







New contributor




bye_bye_harvard is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.















  • 1





    I think the answer is the second hypothesis, but I will leave it to one of the more senior faculty here to weigh in...

    – Dawn
    5 hours ago






  • 1





    One could dream up a number of other hypotheses, but to what point? That’s how the game is played, and those are the rules. No tenure, time to move on.

    – Jon Custer
    4 hours ago











  • In the situation you described, even if the department were happy to keep you as an untenured faculty member, they couldn't do so. In my university, the Regents' Bylaws say that, if we kept a tenure-track assistant professor in that position longer than 7 years, then (s)he would automatically have tenure, whether or not tenure was "awarded". (Department and college administrators whose negligence led to such "de facto tenure" would be in very hot water.)

    – Andreas Blass
    4 hours ago






  • 4





    I think you're missing opportunity cost. Suppose they had a choice between keeping you at your current salary, and firing you and hiring someone new at the same salary (or likely less). You've already demonstrated that you do not meet the standards expected of a tenured faculty member. The new person might eventually do so. Doesn't that seem like an easy decision?

    – Nate Eldredge
    4 hours ago






  • 1





    Just out of curiosity, you were an assistant professor in math at Harvard and this is an honest question you had?

    – user2705196
    1 hour ago















3















Suppose I used to hold a tenure-track math position at a R1 institution, but then I was denied tenure. Assume I do not care about job security (and never cared) and I would be more than happy to keep working under the same conditions and would work just as hard as I worked before tenure denial. The question is: what are the reasons why the department would not be happy to keep me (under the same conditions)?



Some hypotheses:



  • Me working at the department is beneficial for the department at any given point of time. If this is true, then they should be OK with me remaining in my present position.

  • Accepting someone for tenure-track is a calculated risk the department takes (because it can not judge purely from the post-doc record whether one is going to be a great researcher or not). Now that my tenure-track is over, they have figured out that I am not good enough and it is beneficial for them to kick me out.

  • For an average person, the possibility of tenure is a strong motivator. It is beneficial for the department to have someone who has been promised tenure at any given point of time but it is not beneficial once the person knows they won't be given tenure. I am just a weirdo who happens not to care.









share|improve this question







New contributor




bye_bye_harvard is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.















  • 1





    I think the answer is the second hypothesis, but I will leave it to one of the more senior faculty here to weigh in...

    – Dawn
    5 hours ago






  • 1





    One could dream up a number of other hypotheses, but to what point? That’s how the game is played, and those are the rules. No tenure, time to move on.

    – Jon Custer
    4 hours ago











  • In the situation you described, even if the department were happy to keep you as an untenured faculty member, they couldn't do so. In my university, the Regents' Bylaws say that, if we kept a tenure-track assistant professor in that position longer than 7 years, then (s)he would automatically have tenure, whether or not tenure was "awarded". (Department and college administrators whose negligence led to such "de facto tenure" would be in very hot water.)

    – Andreas Blass
    4 hours ago






  • 4





    I think you're missing opportunity cost. Suppose they had a choice between keeping you at your current salary, and firing you and hiring someone new at the same salary (or likely less). You've already demonstrated that you do not meet the standards expected of a tenured faculty member. The new person might eventually do so. Doesn't that seem like an easy decision?

    – Nate Eldredge
    4 hours ago






  • 1





    Just out of curiosity, you were an assistant professor in math at Harvard and this is an honest question you had?

    – user2705196
    1 hour ago













3












3








3








Suppose I used to hold a tenure-track math position at a R1 institution, but then I was denied tenure. Assume I do not care about job security (and never cared) and I would be more than happy to keep working under the same conditions and would work just as hard as I worked before tenure denial. The question is: what are the reasons why the department would not be happy to keep me (under the same conditions)?



Some hypotheses:



  • Me working at the department is beneficial for the department at any given point of time. If this is true, then they should be OK with me remaining in my present position.

  • Accepting someone for tenure-track is a calculated risk the department takes (because it can not judge purely from the post-doc record whether one is going to be a great researcher or not). Now that my tenure-track is over, they have figured out that I am not good enough and it is beneficial for them to kick me out.

  • For an average person, the possibility of tenure is a strong motivator. It is beneficial for the department to have someone who has been promised tenure at any given point of time but it is not beneficial once the person knows they won't be given tenure. I am just a weirdo who happens not to care.









share|improve this question







New contributor




bye_bye_harvard is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.












Suppose I used to hold a tenure-track math position at a R1 institution, but then I was denied tenure. Assume I do not care about job security (and never cared) and I would be more than happy to keep working under the same conditions and would work just as hard as I worked before tenure denial. The question is: what are the reasons why the department would not be happy to keep me (under the same conditions)?



Some hypotheses:



  • Me working at the department is beneficial for the department at any given point of time. If this is true, then they should be OK with me remaining in my present position.

  • Accepting someone for tenure-track is a calculated risk the department takes (because it can not judge purely from the post-doc record whether one is going to be a great researcher or not). Now that my tenure-track is over, they have figured out that I am not good enough and it is beneficial for them to kick me out.

  • For an average person, the possibility of tenure is a strong motivator. It is beneficial for the department to have someone who has been promised tenure at any given point of time but it is not beneficial once the person knows they won't be given tenure. I am just a weirdo who happens not to care.






mathematics tenure-track






share|improve this question







New contributor




bye_bye_harvard is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.











share|improve this question







New contributor




bye_bye_harvard is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.









share|improve this question




share|improve this question






New contributor




bye_bye_harvard is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.









asked 5 hours ago









bye_bye_harvardbye_bye_harvard

191




191




New contributor




bye_bye_harvard is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.





New contributor





bye_bye_harvard is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.






bye_bye_harvard is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.







  • 1





    I think the answer is the second hypothesis, but I will leave it to one of the more senior faculty here to weigh in...

    – Dawn
    5 hours ago






  • 1





    One could dream up a number of other hypotheses, but to what point? That’s how the game is played, and those are the rules. No tenure, time to move on.

    – Jon Custer
    4 hours ago











  • In the situation you described, even if the department were happy to keep you as an untenured faculty member, they couldn't do so. In my university, the Regents' Bylaws say that, if we kept a tenure-track assistant professor in that position longer than 7 years, then (s)he would automatically have tenure, whether or not tenure was "awarded". (Department and college administrators whose negligence led to such "de facto tenure" would be in very hot water.)

    – Andreas Blass
    4 hours ago






  • 4





    I think you're missing opportunity cost. Suppose they had a choice between keeping you at your current salary, and firing you and hiring someone new at the same salary (or likely less). You've already demonstrated that you do not meet the standards expected of a tenured faculty member. The new person might eventually do so. Doesn't that seem like an easy decision?

    – Nate Eldredge
    4 hours ago






  • 1





    Just out of curiosity, you were an assistant professor in math at Harvard and this is an honest question you had?

    – user2705196
    1 hour ago












  • 1





    I think the answer is the second hypothesis, but I will leave it to one of the more senior faculty here to weigh in...

    – Dawn
    5 hours ago






  • 1





    One could dream up a number of other hypotheses, but to what point? That’s how the game is played, and those are the rules. No tenure, time to move on.

    – Jon Custer
    4 hours ago











  • In the situation you described, even if the department were happy to keep you as an untenured faculty member, they couldn't do so. In my university, the Regents' Bylaws say that, if we kept a tenure-track assistant professor in that position longer than 7 years, then (s)he would automatically have tenure, whether or not tenure was "awarded". (Department and college administrators whose negligence led to such "de facto tenure" would be in very hot water.)

    – Andreas Blass
    4 hours ago






  • 4





    I think you're missing opportunity cost. Suppose they had a choice between keeping you at your current salary, and firing you and hiring someone new at the same salary (or likely less). You've already demonstrated that you do not meet the standards expected of a tenured faculty member. The new person might eventually do so. Doesn't that seem like an easy decision?

    – Nate Eldredge
    4 hours ago






  • 1





    Just out of curiosity, you were an assistant professor in math at Harvard and this is an honest question you had?

    – user2705196
    1 hour ago







1




1





I think the answer is the second hypothesis, but I will leave it to one of the more senior faculty here to weigh in...

– Dawn
5 hours ago





I think the answer is the second hypothesis, but I will leave it to one of the more senior faculty here to weigh in...

– Dawn
5 hours ago




1




1





One could dream up a number of other hypotheses, but to what point? That’s how the game is played, and those are the rules. No tenure, time to move on.

– Jon Custer
4 hours ago





One could dream up a number of other hypotheses, but to what point? That’s how the game is played, and those are the rules. No tenure, time to move on.

– Jon Custer
4 hours ago













In the situation you described, even if the department were happy to keep you as an untenured faculty member, they couldn't do so. In my university, the Regents' Bylaws say that, if we kept a tenure-track assistant professor in that position longer than 7 years, then (s)he would automatically have tenure, whether or not tenure was "awarded". (Department and college administrators whose negligence led to such "de facto tenure" would be in very hot water.)

– Andreas Blass
4 hours ago





In the situation you described, even if the department were happy to keep you as an untenured faculty member, they couldn't do so. In my university, the Regents' Bylaws say that, if we kept a tenure-track assistant professor in that position longer than 7 years, then (s)he would automatically have tenure, whether or not tenure was "awarded". (Department and college administrators whose negligence led to such "de facto tenure" would be in very hot water.)

– Andreas Blass
4 hours ago




4




4





I think you're missing opportunity cost. Suppose they had a choice between keeping you at your current salary, and firing you and hiring someone new at the same salary (or likely less). You've already demonstrated that you do not meet the standards expected of a tenured faculty member. The new person might eventually do so. Doesn't that seem like an easy decision?

– Nate Eldredge
4 hours ago





I think you're missing opportunity cost. Suppose they had a choice between keeping you at your current salary, and firing you and hiring someone new at the same salary (or likely less). You've already demonstrated that you do not meet the standards expected of a tenured faculty member. The new person might eventually do so. Doesn't that seem like an easy decision?

– Nate Eldredge
4 hours ago




1




1





Just out of curiosity, you were an assistant professor in math at Harvard and this is an honest question you had?

– user2705196
1 hour ago





Just out of curiosity, you were an assistant professor in math at Harvard and this is an honest question you had?

– user2705196
1 hour ago










3 Answers
3






active

oldest

votes


















3














In most jobs in industry, new employees go through a probationary period during which they can be let go (fired) for poor performance without the protections and benefits that more experienced employees might get. If a new employee isn't working out, then they'll be let go during this probationary period.



In higher education in the US, the (customarily at most 7 years long) tenure track is an extremely long probationary period tied with policies that (in the name of academic freedom) give tenured faculty very strong protection against being fired or laid off.



When a tenure-track professor is denied tenure, the university has decided that they're not doing well enough in the job to justify a lifetime commitment from the institution. There are significant costs associated with recruiting a replacement, as well as significant consequences for the morale of other junior faculty, so these decisions aren't made lightly.



Allowing a tenure track faculty member to continue as non-tenured faculty member after you've denied them tenure has problems. In addition to lowering the morale of other tenured and tenure-track faculty, it runs afoul of the guidelines for tenure promulgated by the American Association of Union Professors (AAUP) that say that tenure must be granted after seven years of service.



It should be noted that the tenure system is in a significant decline in the US. More and more, teaching and research work is being done by people in non-tenure-track positions and the number of tenured faculty is declining.






share|improve this answer


















  • 1





    thank you for your answer. So the answer is essentially "There is pressure from the society to give tenure to people who have worked for the department for 7 years." Do I understand correctly?

    – bye_bye_harvard
    4 hours ago






  • 1





    The tenure system is something that was created and maintained by universities and their faculty. I don’t think that the rest of society has had much to say about it, although some politicians have certainly argued that it should be abolished.

    – Brian Borchers
    4 hours ago


















0














It is a strategy to avoid the Peter Principle, similar to the military's up-or-out policy.



In particular, there are only so many slots for professors (tenured or otherwise). They want to allocate those slots to the best candidates as possible. Mathematically, there is some quality threshold Q', and they want to give only to candidates with Q > Q'. Now if your Q is less than Q', letting you go will allow them to bring in someone else whose quality may be greater than Q', which improves the department (or your replacement may also have Q < Q', in which case they'll get let go also and try again). In other words -- by not offering tenure, the university is taking the gamble that they can find someone better to fill the spot long-term.



Further, I suspect it is also true that Q is not static, but changes (decreases) after a tenure decision is made.






share|improve this answer
































    0














    There might be exceptions to this but in general universities have rules that faculty can only be employed without tenure for a number of years, so you can only stay for so long after being denied tenure.



    It is also true that many times the denial of tenure is not meant to "fire" you, but to say "you are not ready". I know several cases where the denial of tenure included "you are not ready" language, and clearly implied that the candidate would apply for tenure again.



    As others have mentioned, these decisions are not taken lightly, and there are usually avenues for appeal.






    share|improve this answer























      Your Answer








      StackExchange.ready(function()
      var channelOptions =
      tags: "".split(" "),
      id: "415"
      ;
      initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);

      StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function()
      // Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
      if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled)
      StackExchange.using("snippets", function()
      createEditor();
      );

      else
      createEditor();

      );

      function createEditor()
      StackExchange.prepareEditor(
      heartbeatType: 'answer',
      autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
      convertImagesToLinks: true,
      noModals: true,
      showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
      reputationToPostImages: 10,
      bindNavPrevention: true,
      postfix: "",
      imageUploader:
      brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
      contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
      allowUrls: true
      ,
      noCode: true, onDemand: true,
      discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
      ,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
      );



      );






      bye_bye_harvard is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.









      draft saved

      draft discarded


















      StackExchange.ready(
      function ()
      StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2facademia.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f128033%2funiversitys-motivation-for-having-tenure-track-positions%23new-answer', 'question_page');

      );

      Post as a guest















      Required, but never shown

























      3 Answers
      3






      active

      oldest

      votes








      3 Answers
      3






      active

      oldest

      votes









      active

      oldest

      votes






      active

      oldest

      votes









      3














      In most jobs in industry, new employees go through a probationary period during which they can be let go (fired) for poor performance without the protections and benefits that more experienced employees might get. If a new employee isn't working out, then they'll be let go during this probationary period.



      In higher education in the US, the (customarily at most 7 years long) tenure track is an extremely long probationary period tied with policies that (in the name of academic freedom) give tenured faculty very strong protection against being fired or laid off.



      When a tenure-track professor is denied tenure, the university has decided that they're not doing well enough in the job to justify a lifetime commitment from the institution. There are significant costs associated with recruiting a replacement, as well as significant consequences for the morale of other junior faculty, so these decisions aren't made lightly.



      Allowing a tenure track faculty member to continue as non-tenured faculty member after you've denied them tenure has problems. In addition to lowering the morale of other tenured and tenure-track faculty, it runs afoul of the guidelines for tenure promulgated by the American Association of Union Professors (AAUP) that say that tenure must be granted after seven years of service.



      It should be noted that the tenure system is in a significant decline in the US. More and more, teaching and research work is being done by people in non-tenure-track positions and the number of tenured faculty is declining.






      share|improve this answer


















      • 1





        thank you for your answer. So the answer is essentially "There is pressure from the society to give tenure to people who have worked for the department for 7 years." Do I understand correctly?

        – bye_bye_harvard
        4 hours ago






      • 1





        The tenure system is something that was created and maintained by universities and their faculty. I don’t think that the rest of society has had much to say about it, although some politicians have certainly argued that it should be abolished.

        – Brian Borchers
        4 hours ago















      3














      In most jobs in industry, new employees go through a probationary period during which they can be let go (fired) for poor performance without the protections and benefits that more experienced employees might get. If a new employee isn't working out, then they'll be let go during this probationary period.



      In higher education in the US, the (customarily at most 7 years long) tenure track is an extremely long probationary period tied with policies that (in the name of academic freedom) give tenured faculty very strong protection against being fired or laid off.



      When a tenure-track professor is denied tenure, the university has decided that they're not doing well enough in the job to justify a lifetime commitment from the institution. There are significant costs associated with recruiting a replacement, as well as significant consequences for the morale of other junior faculty, so these decisions aren't made lightly.



      Allowing a tenure track faculty member to continue as non-tenured faculty member after you've denied them tenure has problems. In addition to lowering the morale of other tenured and tenure-track faculty, it runs afoul of the guidelines for tenure promulgated by the American Association of Union Professors (AAUP) that say that tenure must be granted after seven years of service.



      It should be noted that the tenure system is in a significant decline in the US. More and more, teaching and research work is being done by people in non-tenure-track positions and the number of tenured faculty is declining.






      share|improve this answer


















      • 1





        thank you for your answer. So the answer is essentially "There is pressure from the society to give tenure to people who have worked for the department for 7 years." Do I understand correctly?

        – bye_bye_harvard
        4 hours ago






      • 1





        The tenure system is something that was created and maintained by universities and their faculty. I don’t think that the rest of society has had much to say about it, although some politicians have certainly argued that it should be abolished.

        – Brian Borchers
        4 hours ago













      3












      3








      3







      In most jobs in industry, new employees go through a probationary period during which they can be let go (fired) for poor performance without the protections and benefits that more experienced employees might get. If a new employee isn't working out, then they'll be let go during this probationary period.



      In higher education in the US, the (customarily at most 7 years long) tenure track is an extremely long probationary period tied with policies that (in the name of academic freedom) give tenured faculty very strong protection against being fired or laid off.



      When a tenure-track professor is denied tenure, the university has decided that they're not doing well enough in the job to justify a lifetime commitment from the institution. There are significant costs associated with recruiting a replacement, as well as significant consequences for the morale of other junior faculty, so these decisions aren't made lightly.



      Allowing a tenure track faculty member to continue as non-tenured faculty member after you've denied them tenure has problems. In addition to lowering the morale of other tenured and tenure-track faculty, it runs afoul of the guidelines for tenure promulgated by the American Association of Union Professors (AAUP) that say that tenure must be granted after seven years of service.



      It should be noted that the tenure system is in a significant decline in the US. More and more, teaching and research work is being done by people in non-tenure-track positions and the number of tenured faculty is declining.






      share|improve this answer













      In most jobs in industry, new employees go through a probationary period during which they can be let go (fired) for poor performance without the protections and benefits that more experienced employees might get. If a new employee isn't working out, then they'll be let go during this probationary period.



      In higher education in the US, the (customarily at most 7 years long) tenure track is an extremely long probationary period tied with policies that (in the name of academic freedom) give tenured faculty very strong protection against being fired or laid off.



      When a tenure-track professor is denied tenure, the university has decided that they're not doing well enough in the job to justify a lifetime commitment from the institution. There are significant costs associated with recruiting a replacement, as well as significant consequences for the morale of other junior faculty, so these decisions aren't made lightly.



      Allowing a tenure track faculty member to continue as non-tenured faculty member after you've denied them tenure has problems. In addition to lowering the morale of other tenured and tenure-track faculty, it runs afoul of the guidelines for tenure promulgated by the American Association of Union Professors (AAUP) that say that tenure must be granted after seven years of service.



      It should be noted that the tenure system is in a significant decline in the US. More and more, teaching and research work is being done by people in non-tenure-track positions and the number of tenured faculty is declining.







      share|improve this answer












      share|improve this answer



      share|improve this answer










      answered 4 hours ago









      Brian BorchersBrian Borchers

      29.3k353107




      29.3k353107







      • 1





        thank you for your answer. So the answer is essentially "There is pressure from the society to give tenure to people who have worked for the department for 7 years." Do I understand correctly?

        – bye_bye_harvard
        4 hours ago






      • 1





        The tenure system is something that was created and maintained by universities and their faculty. I don’t think that the rest of society has had much to say about it, although some politicians have certainly argued that it should be abolished.

        – Brian Borchers
        4 hours ago












      • 1





        thank you for your answer. So the answer is essentially "There is pressure from the society to give tenure to people who have worked for the department for 7 years." Do I understand correctly?

        – bye_bye_harvard
        4 hours ago






      • 1





        The tenure system is something that was created and maintained by universities and their faculty. I don’t think that the rest of society has had much to say about it, although some politicians have certainly argued that it should be abolished.

        – Brian Borchers
        4 hours ago







      1




      1





      thank you for your answer. So the answer is essentially "There is pressure from the society to give tenure to people who have worked for the department for 7 years." Do I understand correctly?

      – bye_bye_harvard
      4 hours ago





      thank you for your answer. So the answer is essentially "There is pressure from the society to give tenure to people who have worked for the department for 7 years." Do I understand correctly?

      – bye_bye_harvard
      4 hours ago




      1




      1





      The tenure system is something that was created and maintained by universities and their faculty. I don’t think that the rest of society has had much to say about it, although some politicians have certainly argued that it should be abolished.

      – Brian Borchers
      4 hours ago





      The tenure system is something that was created and maintained by universities and their faculty. I don’t think that the rest of society has had much to say about it, although some politicians have certainly argued that it should be abolished.

      – Brian Borchers
      4 hours ago











      0














      It is a strategy to avoid the Peter Principle, similar to the military's up-or-out policy.



      In particular, there are only so many slots for professors (tenured or otherwise). They want to allocate those slots to the best candidates as possible. Mathematically, there is some quality threshold Q', and they want to give only to candidates with Q > Q'. Now if your Q is less than Q', letting you go will allow them to bring in someone else whose quality may be greater than Q', which improves the department (or your replacement may also have Q < Q', in which case they'll get let go also and try again). In other words -- by not offering tenure, the university is taking the gamble that they can find someone better to fill the spot long-term.



      Further, I suspect it is also true that Q is not static, but changes (decreases) after a tenure decision is made.






      share|improve this answer





























        0














        It is a strategy to avoid the Peter Principle, similar to the military's up-or-out policy.



        In particular, there are only so many slots for professors (tenured or otherwise). They want to allocate those slots to the best candidates as possible. Mathematically, there is some quality threshold Q', and they want to give only to candidates with Q > Q'. Now if your Q is less than Q', letting you go will allow them to bring in someone else whose quality may be greater than Q', which improves the department (or your replacement may also have Q < Q', in which case they'll get let go also and try again). In other words -- by not offering tenure, the university is taking the gamble that they can find someone better to fill the spot long-term.



        Further, I suspect it is also true that Q is not static, but changes (decreases) after a tenure decision is made.






        share|improve this answer



























          0












          0








          0







          It is a strategy to avoid the Peter Principle, similar to the military's up-or-out policy.



          In particular, there are only so many slots for professors (tenured or otherwise). They want to allocate those slots to the best candidates as possible. Mathematically, there is some quality threshold Q', and they want to give only to candidates with Q > Q'. Now if your Q is less than Q', letting you go will allow them to bring in someone else whose quality may be greater than Q', which improves the department (or your replacement may also have Q < Q', in which case they'll get let go also and try again). In other words -- by not offering tenure, the university is taking the gamble that they can find someone better to fill the spot long-term.



          Further, I suspect it is also true that Q is not static, but changes (decreases) after a tenure decision is made.






          share|improve this answer















          It is a strategy to avoid the Peter Principle, similar to the military's up-or-out policy.



          In particular, there are only so many slots for professors (tenured or otherwise). They want to allocate those slots to the best candidates as possible. Mathematically, there is some quality threshold Q', and they want to give only to candidates with Q > Q'. Now if your Q is less than Q', letting you go will allow them to bring in someone else whose quality may be greater than Q', which improves the department (or your replacement may also have Q < Q', in which case they'll get let go also and try again). In other words -- by not offering tenure, the university is taking the gamble that they can find someone better to fill the spot long-term.



          Further, I suspect it is also true that Q is not static, but changes (decreases) after a tenure decision is made.







          share|improve this answer














          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer








          edited 1 hour ago

























          answered 2 hours ago









          cag51cag51

          18.3k93869




          18.3k93869





















              0














              There might be exceptions to this but in general universities have rules that faculty can only be employed without tenure for a number of years, so you can only stay for so long after being denied tenure.



              It is also true that many times the denial of tenure is not meant to "fire" you, but to say "you are not ready". I know several cases where the denial of tenure included "you are not ready" language, and clearly implied that the candidate would apply for tenure again.



              As others have mentioned, these decisions are not taken lightly, and there are usually avenues for appeal.






              share|improve this answer



























                0














                There might be exceptions to this but in general universities have rules that faculty can only be employed without tenure for a number of years, so you can only stay for so long after being denied tenure.



                It is also true that many times the denial of tenure is not meant to "fire" you, but to say "you are not ready". I know several cases where the denial of tenure included "you are not ready" language, and clearly implied that the candidate would apply for tenure again.



                As others have mentioned, these decisions are not taken lightly, and there are usually avenues for appeal.






                share|improve this answer

























                  0












                  0








                  0







                  There might be exceptions to this but in general universities have rules that faculty can only be employed without tenure for a number of years, so you can only stay for so long after being denied tenure.



                  It is also true that many times the denial of tenure is not meant to "fire" you, but to say "you are not ready". I know several cases where the denial of tenure included "you are not ready" language, and clearly implied that the candidate would apply for tenure again.



                  As others have mentioned, these decisions are not taken lightly, and there are usually avenues for appeal.






                  share|improve this answer













                  There might be exceptions to this but in general universities have rules that faculty can only be employed without tenure for a number of years, so you can only stay for so long after being denied tenure.



                  It is also true that many times the denial of tenure is not meant to "fire" you, but to say "you are not ready". I know several cases where the denial of tenure included "you are not ready" language, and clearly implied that the candidate would apply for tenure again.



                  As others have mentioned, these decisions are not taken lightly, and there are usually avenues for appeal.







                  share|improve this answer












                  share|improve this answer



                  share|improve this answer










                  answered 47 mins ago









                  Martin ArgeramiMartin Argerami

                  3,4531421




                  3,4531421




















                      bye_bye_harvard is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.









                      draft saved

                      draft discarded


















                      bye_bye_harvard is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.












                      bye_bye_harvard is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.











                      bye_bye_harvard is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.














                      Thanks for contributing an answer to Academia Stack Exchange!


                      • Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!

                      But avoid


                      • Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.

                      • Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.

                      To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.




                      draft saved


                      draft discarded














                      StackExchange.ready(
                      function ()
                      StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2facademia.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f128033%2funiversitys-motivation-for-having-tenure-track-positions%23new-answer', 'question_page');

                      );

                      Post as a guest















                      Required, but never shown





















































                      Required, but never shown














                      Required, but never shown












                      Required, but never shown







                      Required, but never shown

































                      Required, but never shown














                      Required, but never shown












                      Required, but never shown







                      Required, but never shown







                      Popular posts from this blog

                      How to create a command for the “strange m” symbol in latex? Announcing the arrival of Valued Associate #679: Cesar Manara Planned maintenance scheduled April 23, 2019 at 23:30 UTC (7:30pm US/Eastern)How do you make your own symbol when Detexify fails?Writing bold small caps with mathpazo packageplus-minus symbol with parenthesis around the minus signGreek character in Beamer document titleHow to create dashed right arrow over symbol?Currency symbol: Turkish LiraDouble prec as a single symbol?Plus Sign Too Big; How to Call adfbullet?Is there a TeX macro for three-legged pi?How do I get my integral-like symbol to align like the integral?How to selectively substitute a letter with another symbol representing the same letterHow do I generate a less than symbol and vertical bar that are the same height?

                      Българска екзархия Съдържание История | Български екзарси | Вижте също | Външни препратки | Литература | Бележки | НавигацияУстав за управлението на българската екзархия. Цариград, 1870Слово на Ловешкия митрополит Иларион при откриването на Българския народен събор в Цариград на 23. II. 1870 г.Българската правда и гръцката кривда. От С. М. (= Софийски Мелетий). Цариград, 1872Предстоятели на Българската екзархияПодмененият ВеликденИнформационна агенция „Фокус“Димитър Ризов. Българите в техните исторически, етнографически и политически граници (Атлас съдържащ 40 карти). Berlin, Königliche Hoflithographie, Hof-Buch- und -Steindruckerei Wilhelm Greve, 1917Report of the International Commission to Inquire into the Causes and Conduct of the Balkan Wars

                      Чепеларе Съдържание География | История | Население | Спортни и природни забележителности | Културни и исторически обекти | Религии | Обществени институции | Известни личности | Редовни събития | Галерия | Източници | Литература | Външни препратки | Навигация41°43′23.99″ с. ш. 24°41′09.99″ и. д. / 41.723333° с. ш. 24.686111° и. д.*ЧепелареЧепеларски Linux fest 2002Начало на Зимен сезон 2005/06Национални хайдушки празници „Капитан Петко Войвода“Град ЧепелареЧепеларе – народният ски курортbgrod.orgwww.terranatura.hit.bgСправка за населението на гр. Исперих, общ. Исперих, обл. РазградМузей на родопския карстМузей на спорта и скитеЧепеларебългарскибългарскианглийскитукИстория на градаСки писти в ЧепелареВремето в ЧепелареРадио и телевизия в ЧепелареЧепеларе мами с родопски чар и добри пистиЕвтин туризъм и снежни атракции в ЧепелареМестоположениеИнформация и снимки от музея на родопския карст3D панорами от ЧепелареЧепелареррр