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How to avoid supervisors with prejudiced views?
The Next CEO of Stack OverflowProblems in coping with my PhD SupervisorsCan a honours supervisors be called a Project Leader?Is there a code of ethics for Ph.D. supervisors?Any experience in working with aged emeritus supervisors?Managing relationships with uninvolved supervisorsChanging supervisors in graduate programAdvice? One of my PhD supervisors is insisting on involvement with my article based off my Masters thesis.How to avoid writing a grant with an advisorIs it common that advisor has no idea about what is going on and totally helpless?How to handle conflicts with inventorship on a patent with my supervisors from the university and the company?
There seem to be professors who hold beliefs such as:
- Women students pose a special risk to male supervisors
- Certain ethnic groups are smarter/lazier/harder-working than others
- Older students are worse investments than younger students
- Students with disabilities are less capable/more trouble than nondisabled students
No student should be saddled with negative prejudices from their supervisor. But how can this be prevented?
The big problem is that bigots are often hard to identify early on. They think of themselves as just being honest and realistic. Asking their current students might not help, because if they don't belong to a marginalized group, they will often only notice other characteristics, such as that the supervisor is nice and explains things well. Unfortunately, it's possible to be a very nice guy and also a horrible bigot.
There's also a corrosive secondary bigotry where the bigot insists that they themselves aren't bigots, but other people are, so good opportunities would be wasted on the marginalized student.
How can a prospective student identify these people and avoid them?
ethics advisor
New contributor
|
show 8 more comments
There seem to be professors who hold beliefs such as:
- Women students pose a special risk to male supervisors
- Certain ethnic groups are smarter/lazier/harder-working than others
- Older students are worse investments than younger students
- Students with disabilities are less capable/more trouble than nondisabled students
No student should be saddled with negative prejudices from their supervisor. But how can this be prevented?
The big problem is that bigots are often hard to identify early on. They think of themselves as just being honest and realistic. Asking their current students might not help, because if they don't belong to a marginalized group, they will often only notice other characteristics, such as that the supervisor is nice and explains things well. Unfortunately, it's possible to be a very nice guy and also a horrible bigot.
There's also a corrosive secondary bigotry where the bigot insists that they themselves aren't bigots, but other people are, so good opportunities would be wasted on the marginalized student.
How can a prospective student identify these people and avoid them?
ethics advisor
New contributor
5
It's often possible to obtain a list of the previous students of an advisor. A record of having supervised a diverse group of MS or PhD advisees is probably a good sign.
– Brian Borchers
6 hours ago
2
Hmm, how do supervisors deal with students who are bigots? Or are all students perfect?
– Solar Mike
6 hours ago
2
@SolarMike All students, by definition, don't have a huge amount of power over their supervisor's careers.
– user106152
6 hours ago
2
@SolarMike You must know that you're just encouraging any future trolls who might come along. My premise is that power is a fundamental part of being able to harm someone through bigotry.
– user106152
5 hours ago
2
I don't get the close-votes so far. How is this question "primarily opinion-based" or "too broad"? The OP is asking for specific advice about a specific situation.
– Elizabeth Henning
3 hours ago
|
show 8 more comments
There seem to be professors who hold beliefs such as:
- Women students pose a special risk to male supervisors
- Certain ethnic groups are smarter/lazier/harder-working than others
- Older students are worse investments than younger students
- Students with disabilities are less capable/more trouble than nondisabled students
No student should be saddled with negative prejudices from their supervisor. But how can this be prevented?
The big problem is that bigots are often hard to identify early on. They think of themselves as just being honest and realistic. Asking their current students might not help, because if they don't belong to a marginalized group, they will often only notice other characteristics, such as that the supervisor is nice and explains things well. Unfortunately, it's possible to be a very nice guy and also a horrible bigot.
There's also a corrosive secondary bigotry where the bigot insists that they themselves aren't bigots, but other people are, so good opportunities would be wasted on the marginalized student.
How can a prospective student identify these people and avoid them?
ethics advisor
New contributor
There seem to be professors who hold beliefs such as:
- Women students pose a special risk to male supervisors
- Certain ethnic groups are smarter/lazier/harder-working than others
- Older students are worse investments than younger students
- Students with disabilities are less capable/more trouble than nondisabled students
No student should be saddled with negative prejudices from their supervisor. But how can this be prevented?
The big problem is that bigots are often hard to identify early on. They think of themselves as just being honest and realistic. Asking their current students might not help, because if they don't belong to a marginalized group, they will often only notice other characteristics, such as that the supervisor is nice and explains things well. Unfortunately, it's possible to be a very nice guy and also a horrible bigot.
There's also a corrosive secondary bigotry where the bigot insists that they themselves aren't bigots, but other people are, so good opportunities would be wasted on the marginalized student.
How can a prospective student identify these people and avoid them?
ethics advisor
ethics advisor
New contributor
New contributor
edited 6 hours ago
user106152
New contributor
asked 7 hours ago
user106152user106152
263
263
New contributor
New contributor
5
It's often possible to obtain a list of the previous students of an advisor. A record of having supervised a diverse group of MS or PhD advisees is probably a good sign.
– Brian Borchers
6 hours ago
2
Hmm, how do supervisors deal with students who are bigots? Or are all students perfect?
– Solar Mike
6 hours ago
2
@SolarMike All students, by definition, don't have a huge amount of power over their supervisor's careers.
– user106152
6 hours ago
2
@SolarMike You must know that you're just encouraging any future trolls who might come along. My premise is that power is a fundamental part of being able to harm someone through bigotry.
– user106152
5 hours ago
2
I don't get the close-votes so far. How is this question "primarily opinion-based" or "too broad"? The OP is asking for specific advice about a specific situation.
– Elizabeth Henning
3 hours ago
|
show 8 more comments
5
It's often possible to obtain a list of the previous students of an advisor. A record of having supervised a diverse group of MS or PhD advisees is probably a good sign.
– Brian Borchers
6 hours ago
2
Hmm, how do supervisors deal with students who are bigots? Or are all students perfect?
– Solar Mike
6 hours ago
2
@SolarMike All students, by definition, don't have a huge amount of power over their supervisor's careers.
– user106152
6 hours ago
2
@SolarMike You must know that you're just encouraging any future trolls who might come along. My premise is that power is a fundamental part of being able to harm someone through bigotry.
– user106152
5 hours ago
2
I don't get the close-votes so far. How is this question "primarily opinion-based" or "too broad"? The OP is asking for specific advice about a specific situation.
– Elizabeth Henning
3 hours ago
5
5
It's often possible to obtain a list of the previous students of an advisor. A record of having supervised a diverse group of MS or PhD advisees is probably a good sign.
– Brian Borchers
6 hours ago
It's often possible to obtain a list of the previous students of an advisor. A record of having supervised a diverse group of MS or PhD advisees is probably a good sign.
– Brian Borchers
6 hours ago
2
2
Hmm, how do supervisors deal with students who are bigots? Or are all students perfect?
– Solar Mike
6 hours ago
Hmm, how do supervisors deal with students who are bigots? Or are all students perfect?
– Solar Mike
6 hours ago
2
2
@SolarMike All students, by definition, don't have a huge amount of power over their supervisor's careers.
– user106152
6 hours ago
@SolarMike All students, by definition, don't have a huge amount of power over their supervisor's careers.
– user106152
6 hours ago
2
2
@SolarMike You must know that you're just encouraging any future trolls who might come along. My premise is that power is a fundamental part of being able to harm someone through bigotry.
– user106152
5 hours ago
@SolarMike You must know that you're just encouraging any future trolls who might come along. My premise is that power is a fundamental part of being able to harm someone through bigotry.
– user106152
5 hours ago
2
2
I don't get the close-votes so far. How is this question "primarily opinion-based" or "too broad"? The OP is asking for specific advice about a specific situation.
– Elizabeth Henning
3 hours ago
I don't get the close-votes so far. How is this question "primarily opinion-based" or "too broad"? The OP is asking for specific advice about a specific situation.
– Elizabeth Henning
3 hours ago
|
show 8 more comments
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
I will sound snarky with this answer, but have you tried talking to them?
Your question may ask well be asked as "How do I determine the values of another human being before I meet them?" And I would say that is not something you can truly learn and understand until you talk with them.
You may respond with, 'What if they lie?' And that's a very valid point. But I would tell you that all of human social interaction is this very problem, and that you will not gain the wisdom of how to interact with humans without interacting with them!
2
Talk with them and say what? "Are you a bigot?"
– user106152
6 hours ago
2
Maybe not that directly :-). You could ask about their value system. Maybe how they feel about certain social issues in academia. And finally, understand that we're not robots - humans can be very hard to get along with; and I say this as a happily married individual.
– ender.qa
6 hours ago
Make a joke at Trumps' expense and gauge how they laugh. If it isn't loud or long enough, call in the red guards.
– A Simple Algorithm
1 hour ago
add a comment |
I recently heard that a good question to ask is “What do you think that others [perhaps other scientists] think about ...” The idea is that most bigots think their bigotry is pretty normal and their beliefs are widely held in secret. So they might tell you that “other people” think X and you can update your beliefs accordingly, unless they follow this up with a convincing argument about why they think most people are wrong. This method is certainly not conclusive, but it can provide a way to start a conversation or a give a bit of extra evidence one way or the other.
Excellent insight! This gets to the heart of the matter.
– user106152
6 hours ago
2
I think this is a good suggestion, but I'd be a bit wary of interpreting it on its own. For example, the first draft of the OP said many professors have bigoted beliefs. By the method you suggest, that might suggest OP is bigoted because they seem to think bigotry is common. I do think this is a good way to start a conversation, though, and from that conversation hopefully something can be learned about their leanings.
– Bryan Krause
6 hours ago
1
You are right @BryanKrause, I will tone this down.
– Dawn
6 hours ago
add a comment |
I think that in all but the most blatant cases it is very hard to do. But there are a few suggestions that might get you started.
First, note that some of the offenders don't leave tracks that can be followed. A person could, for example, be anti-Semitic and not advertise it, but just find subtle ways to disadvantage Jewish students. There is probably much more of that sort of under the radar sort of bigotry than the more open kind in academia, since it is generally sanctioned when found out.
But, students know, or suspect, at least, that they aren't being treated fairly, even if they have no effective way to complain about it or correct it. So, talking to other students in an informal setting is a good way to learn the scuttlebutt. "What do you think about Prof Buffy? Is he just goofy or a real problem?" If you have a specific concern talk to students who might share that concern.
But, there may also be some record of past misbehavior, either official or otherwise. Disciplinary action may be in the public record (or not). Even a web site like RateMyProfessor is a source of (not well vetted) information that might make you think again about an individual.
It is very difficult, of course, to expel bigots from the profession. Often the actions don't rise to the level that permits a tenured person to be fired. While the difficulty of forcing expulsion is intended, it has some bad side effects. The blatant cases, such as Robert Moore and William Shockley are well known and instructive. Brilliant in their fields, castigated for their social views, but never expelled from their professions. These are the easy cases, since they are very public. But most bigotry thrives in darkness.
1
I think it's even worse than that. An awful lot of bigoted behavior is not only perfectly legal, but will even be defended by the professor's colleagues. However, it's still insidiously damaging to the student and that's what I want to prevent.
– user106152
6 hours ago
2
Hmmm. Prevent or avoid? Prevention requires social change. Avoidance is a bit easier.
– Buffy
6 hours ago
Avoidance doesnot solve the issue, it will disseminate more. Of course, it requires social change, however, if there firm regulations that there no racial, ethnic, religious, gender segregation inside academia. Unfortunately, OP mentioned something we all know that bigot is supported by his colleagues and community.
– Monkia
2 hours ago
What is really worse is that there are professors who have bigoted attitude, but dont reveal it and then insidiously can damage and take advantage of you. The best thing you can do asking alumni, it helped and saved me from bigoted and bullied supervisor after having a horrible one.
– Monkia
2 hours ago
2
@Monkia, true enough, but students are badly placed to effect change without damaging their future. Avoidance only keeps you safe. In the long term, work for a better world.
– Buffy
2 hours ago
|
show 2 more comments
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3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
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active
oldest
votes
I will sound snarky with this answer, but have you tried talking to them?
Your question may ask well be asked as "How do I determine the values of another human being before I meet them?" And I would say that is not something you can truly learn and understand until you talk with them.
You may respond with, 'What if they lie?' And that's a very valid point. But I would tell you that all of human social interaction is this very problem, and that you will not gain the wisdom of how to interact with humans without interacting with them!
2
Talk with them and say what? "Are you a bigot?"
– user106152
6 hours ago
2
Maybe not that directly :-). You could ask about their value system. Maybe how they feel about certain social issues in academia. And finally, understand that we're not robots - humans can be very hard to get along with; and I say this as a happily married individual.
– ender.qa
6 hours ago
Make a joke at Trumps' expense and gauge how they laugh. If it isn't loud or long enough, call in the red guards.
– A Simple Algorithm
1 hour ago
add a comment |
I will sound snarky with this answer, but have you tried talking to them?
Your question may ask well be asked as "How do I determine the values of another human being before I meet them?" And I would say that is not something you can truly learn and understand until you talk with them.
You may respond with, 'What if they lie?' And that's a very valid point. But I would tell you that all of human social interaction is this very problem, and that you will not gain the wisdom of how to interact with humans without interacting with them!
2
Talk with them and say what? "Are you a bigot?"
– user106152
6 hours ago
2
Maybe not that directly :-). You could ask about their value system. Maybe how they feel about certain social issues in academia. And finally, understand that we're not robots - humans can be very hard to get along with; and I say this as a happily married individual.
– ender.qa
6 hours ago
Make a joke at Trumps' expense and gauge how they laugh. If it isn't loud or long enough, call in the red guards.
– A Simple Algorithm
1 hour ago
add a comment |
I will sound snarky with this answer, but have you tried talking to them?
Your question may ask well be asked as "How do I determine the values of another human being before I meet them?" And I would say that is not something you can truly learn and understand until you talk with them.
You may respond with, 'What if they lie?' And that's a very valid point. But I would tell you that all of human social interaction is this very problem, and that you will not gain the wisdom of how to interact with humans without interacting with them!
I will sound snarky with this answer, but have you tried talking to them?
Your question may ask well be asked as "How do I determine the values of another human being before I meet them?" And I would say that is not something you can truly learn and understand until you talk with them.
You may respond with, 'What if they lie?' And that's a very valid point. But I would tell you that all of human social interaction is this very problem, and that you will not gain the wisdom of how to interact with humans without interacting with them!
answered 7 hours ago
ender.qaender.qa
19118
19118
2
Talk with them and say what? "Are you a bigot?"
– user106152
6 hours ago
2
Maybe not that directly :-). You could ask about their value system. Maybe how they feel about certain social issues in academia. And finally, understand that we're not robots - humans can be very hard to get along with; and I say this as a happily married individual.
– ender.qa
6 hours ago
Make a joke at Trumps' expense and gauge how they laugh. If it isn't loud or long enough, call in the red guards.
– A Simple Algorithm
1 hour ago
add a comment |
2
Talk with them and say what? "Are you a bigot?"
– user106152
6 hours ago
2
Maybe not that directly :-). You could ask about their value system. Maybe how they feel about certain social issues in academia. And finally, understand that we're not robots - humans can be very hard to get along with; and I say this as a happily married individual.
– ender.qa
6 hours ago
Make a joke at Trumps' expense and gauge how they laugh. If it isn't loud or long enough, call in the red guards.
– A Simple Algorithm
1 hour ago
2
2
Talk with them and say what? "Are you a bigot?"
– user106152
6 hours ago
Talk with them and say what? "Are you a bigot?"
– user106152
6 hours ago
2
2
Maybe not that directly :-). You could ask about their value system. Maybe how they feel about certain social issues in academia. And finally, understand that we're not robots - humans can be very hard to get along with; and I say this as a happily married individual.
– ender.qa
6 hours ago
Maybe not that directly :-). You could ask about their value system. Maybe how they feel about certain social issues in academia. And finally, understand that we're not robots - humans can be very hard to get along with; and I say this as a happily married individual.
– ender.qa
6 hours ago
Make a joke at Trumps' expense and gauge how they laugh. If it isn't loud or long enough, call in the red guards.
– A Simple Algorithm
1 hour ago
Make a joke at Trumps' expense and gauge how they laugh. If it isn't loud or long enough, call in the red guards.
– A Simple Algorithm
1 hour ago
add a comment |
I recently heard that a good question to ask is “What do you think that others [perhaps other scientists] think about ...” The idea is that most bigots think their bigotry is pretty normal and their beliefs are widely held in secret. So they might tell you that “other people” think X and you can update your beliefs accordingly, unless they follow this up with a convincing argument about why they think most people are wrong. This method is certainly not conclusive, but it can provide a way to start a conversation or a give a bit of extra evidence one way or the other.
Excellent insight! This gets to the heart of the matter.
– user106152
6 hours ago
2
I think this is a good suggestion, but I'd be a bit wary of interpreting it on its own. For example, the first draft of the OP said many professors have bigoted beliefs. By the method you suggest, that might suggest OP is bigoted because they seem to think bigotry is common. I do think this is a good way to start a conversation, though, and from that conversation hopefully something can be learned about their leanings.
– Bryan Krause
6 hours ago
1
You are right @BryanKrause, I will tone this down.
– Dawn
6 hours ago
add a comment |
I recently heard that a good question to ask is “What do you think that others [perhaps other scientists] think about ...” The idea is that most bigots think their bigotry is pretty normal and their beliefs are widely held in secret. So they might tell you that “other people” think X and you can update your beliefs accordingly, unless they follow this up with a convincing argument about why they think most people are wrong. This method is certainly not conclusive, but it can provide a way to start a conversation or a give a bit of extra evidence one way or the other.
Excellent insight! This gets to the heart of the matter.
– user106152
6 hours ago
2
I think this is a good suggestion, but I'd be a bit wary of interpreting it on its own. For example, the first draft of the OP said many professors have bigoted beliefs. By the method you suggest, that might suggest OP is bigoted because they seem to think bigotry is common. I do think this is a good way to start a conversation, though, and from that conversation hopefully something can be learned about their leanings.
– Bryan Krause
6 hours ago
1
You are right @BryanKrause, I will tone this down.
– Dawn
6 hours ago
add a comment |
I recently heard that a good question to ask is “What do you think that others [perhaps other scientists] think about ...” The idea is that most bigots think their bigotry is pretty normal and their beliefs are widely held in secret. So they might tell you that “other people” think X and you can update your beliefs accordingly, unless they follow this up with a convincing argument about why they think most people are wrong. This method is certainly not conclusive, but it can provide a way to start a conversation or a give a bit of extra evidence one way or the other.
I recently heard that a good question to ask is “What do you think that others [perhaps other scientists] think about ...” The idea is that most bigots think their bigotry is pretty normal and their beliefs are widely held in secret. So they might tell you that “other people” think X and you can update your beliefs accordingly, unless they follow this up with a convincing argument about why they think most people are wrong. This method is certainly not conclusive, but it can provide a way to start a conversation or a give a bit of extra evidence one way or the other.
edited 6 hours ago
answered 6 hours ago
DawnDawn
8,70812248
8,70812248
Excellent insight! This gets to the heart of the matter.
– user106152
6 hours ago
2
I think this is a good suggestion, but I'd be a bit wary of interpreting it on its own. For example, the first draft of the OP said many professors have bigoted beliefs. By the method you suggest, that might suggest OP is bigoted because they seem to think bigotry is common. I do think this is a good way to start a conversation, though, and from that conversation hopefully something can be learned about their leanings.
– Bryan Krause
6 hours ago
1
You are right @BryanKrause, I will tone this down.
– Dawn
6 hours ago
add a comment |
Excellent insight! This gets to the heart of the matter.
– user106152
6 hours ago
2
I think this is a good suggestion, but I'd be a bit wary of interpreting it on its own. For example, the first draft of the OP said many professors have bigoted beliefs. By the method you suggest, that might suggest OP is bigoted because they seem to think bigotry is common. I do think this is a good way to start a conversation, though, and from that conversation hopefully something can be learned about their leanings.
– Bryan Krause
6 hours ago
1
You are right @BryanKrause, I will tone this down.
– Dawn
6 hours ago
Excellent insight! This gets to the heart of the matter.
– user106152
6 hours ago
Excellent insight! This gets to the heart of the matter.
– user106152
6 hours ago
2
2
I think this is a good suggestion, but I'd be a bit wary of interpreting it on its own. For example, the first draft of the OP said many professors have bigoted beliefs. By the method you suggest, that might suggest OP is bigoted because they seem to think bigotry is common. I do think this is a good way to start a conversation, though, and from that conversation hopefully something can be learned about their leanings.
– Bryan Krause
6 hours ago
I think this is a good suggestion, but I'd be a bit wary of interpreting it on its own. For example, the first draft of the OP said many professors have bigoted beliefs. By the method you suggest, that might suggest OP is bigoted because they seem to think bigotry is common. I do think this is a good way to start a conversation, though, and from that conversation hopefully something can be learned about their leanings.
– Bryan Krause
6 hours ago
1
1
You are right @BryanKrause, I will tone this down.
– Dawn
6 hours ago
You are right @BryanKrause, I will tone this down.
– Dawn
6 hours ago
add a comment |
I think that in all but the most blatant cases it is very hard to do. But there are a few suggestions that might get you started.
First, note that some of the offenders don't leave tracks that can be followed. A person could, for example, be anti-Semitic and not advertise it, but just find subtle ways to disadvantage Jewish students. There is probably much more of that sort of under the radar sort of bigotry than the more open kind in academia, since it is generally sanctioned when found out.
But, students know, or suspect, at least, that they aren't being treated fairly, even if they have no effective way to complain about it or correct it. So, talking to other students in an informal setting is a good way to learn the scuttlebutt. "What do you think about Prof Buffy? Is he just goofy or a real problem?" If you have a specific concern talk to students who might share that concern.
But, there may also be some record of past misbehavior, either official or otherwise. Disciplinary action may be in the public record (or not). Even a web site like RateMyProfessor is a source of (not well vetted) information that might make you think again about an individual.
It is very difficult, of course, to expel bigots from the profession. Often the actions don't rise to the level that permits a tenured person to be fired. While the difficulty of forcing expulsion is intended, it has some bad side effects. The blatant cases, such as Robert Moore and William Shockley are well known and instructive. Brilliant in their fields, castigated for their social views, but never expelled from their professions. These are the easy cases, since they are very public. But most bigotry thrives in darkness.
1
I think it's even worse than that. An awful lot of bigoted behavior is not only perfectly legal, but will even be defended by the professor's colleagues. However, it's still insidiously damaging to the student and that's what I want to prevent.
– user106152
6 hours ago
2
Hmmm. Prevent or avoid? Prevention requires social change. Avoidance is a bit easier.
– Buffy
6 hours ago
Avoidance doesnot solve the issue, it will disseminate more. Of course, it requires social change, however, if there firm regulations that there no racial, ethnic, religious, gender segregation inside academia. Unfortunately, OP mentioned something we all know that bigot is supported by his colleagues and community.
– Monkia
2 hours ago
What is really worse is that there are professors who have bigoted attitude, but dont reveal it and then insidiously can damage and take advantage of you. The best thing you can do asking alumni, it helped and saved me from bigoted and bullied supervisor after having a horrible one.
– Monkia
2 hours ago
2
@Monkia, true enough, but students are badly placed to effect change without damaging their future. Avoidance only keeps you safe. In the long term, work for a better world.
– Buffy
2 hours ago
|
show 2 more comments
I think that in all but the most blatant cases it is very hard to do. But there are a few suggestions that might get you started.
First, note that some of the offenders don't leave tracks that can be followed. A person could, for example, be anti-Semitic and not advertise it, but just find subtle ways to disadvantage Jewish students. There is probably much more of that sort of under the radar sort of bigotry than the more open kind in academia, since it is generally sanctioned when found out.
But, students know, or suspect, at least, that they aren't being treated fairly, even if they have no effective way to complain about it or correct it. So, talking to other students in an informal setting is a good way to learn the scuttlebutt. "What do you think about Prof Buffy? Is he just goofy or a real problem?" If you have a specific concern talk to students who might share that concern.
But, there may also be some record of past misbehavior, either official or otherwise. Disciplinary action may be in the public record (or not). Even a web site like RateMyProfessor is a source of (not well vetted) information that might make you think again about an individual.
It is very difficult, of course, to expel bigots from the profession. Often the actions don't rise to the level that permits a tenured person to be fired. While the difficulty of forcing expulsion is intended, it has some bad side effects. The blatant cases, such as Robert Moore and William Shockley are well known and instructive. Brilliant in their fields, castigated for their social views, but never expelled from their professions. These are the easy cases, since they are very public. But most bigotry thrives in darkness.
1
I think it's even worse than that. An awful lot of bigoted behavior is not only perfectly legal, but will even be defended by the professor's colleagues. However, it's still insidiously damaging to the student and that's what I want to prevent.
– user106152
6 hours ago
2
Hmmm. Prevent or avoid? Prevention requires social change. Avoidance is a bit easier.
– Buffy
6 hours ago
Avoidance doesnot solve the issue, it will disseminate more. Of course, it requires social change, however, if there firm regulations that there no racial, ethnic, religious, gender segregation inside academia. Unfortunately, OP mentioned something we all know that bigot is supported by his colleagues and community.
– Monkia
2 hours ago
What is really worse is that there are professors who have bigoted attitude, but dont reveal it and then insidiously can damage and take advantage of you. The best thing you can do asking alumni, it helped and saved me from bigoted and bullied supervisor after having a horrible one.
– Monkia
2 hours ago
2
@Monkia, true enough, but students are badly placed to effect change without damaging their future. Avoidance only keeps you safe. In the long term, work for a better world.
– Buffy
2 hours ago
|
show 2 more comments
I think that in all but the most blatant cases it is very hard to do. But there are a few suggestions that might get you started.
First, note that some of the offenders don't leave tracks that can be followed. A person could, for example, be anti-Semitic and not advertise it, but just find subtle ways to disadvantage Jewish students. There is probably much more of that sort of under the radar sort of bigotry than the more open kind in academia, since it is generally sanctioned when found out.
But, students know, or suspect, at least, that they aren't being treated fairly, even if they have no effective way to complain about it or correct it. So, talking to other students in an informal setting is a good way to learn the scuttlebutt. "What do you think about Prof Buffy? Is he just goofy or a real problem?" If you have a specific concern talk to students who might share that concern.
But, there may also be some record of past misbehavior, either official or otherwise. Disciplinary action may be in the public record (or not). Even a web site like RateMyProfessor is a source of (not well vetted) information that might make you think again about an individual.
It is very difficult, of course, to expel bigots from the profession. Often the actions don't rise to the level that permits a tenured person to be fired. While the difficulty of forcing expulsion is intended, it has some bad side effects. The blatant cases, such as Robert Moore and William Shockley are well known and instructive. Brilliant in their fields, castigated for their social views, but never expelled from their professions. These are the easy cases, since they are very public. But most bigotry thrives in darkness.
I think that in all but the most blatant cases it is very hard to do. But there are a few suggestions that might get you started.
First, note that some of the offenders don't leave tracks that can be followed. A person could, for example, be anti-Semitic and not advertise it, but just find subtle ways to disadvantage Jewish students. There is probably much more of that sort of under the radar sort of bigotry than the more open kind in academia, since it is generally sanctioned when found out.
But, students know, or suspect, at least, that they aren't being treated fairly, even if they have no effective way to complain about it or correct it. So, talking to other students in an informal setting is a good way to learn the scuttlebutt. "What do you think about Prof Buffy? Is he just goofy or a real problem?" If you have a specific concern talk to students who might share that concern.
But, there may also be some record of past misbehavior, either official or otherwise. Disciplinary action may be in the public record (or not). Even a web site like RateMyProfessor is a source of (not well vetted) information that might make you think again about an individual.
It is very difficult, of course, to expel bigots from the profession. Often the actions don't rise to the level that permits a tenured person to be fired. While the difficulty of forcing expulsion is intended, it has some bad side effects. The blatant cases, such as Robert Moore and William Shockley are well known and instructive. Brilliant in their fields, castigated for their social views, but never expelled from their professions. These are the easy cases, since they are very public. But most bigotry thrives in darkness.
edited 6 hours ago
answered 6 hours ago
BuffyBuffy
55.1k16175268
55.1k16175268
1
I think it's even worse than that. An awful lot of bigoted behavior is not only perfectly legal, but will even be defended by the professor's colleagues. However, it's still insidiously damaging to the student and that's what I want to prevent.
– user106152
6 hours ago
2
Hmmm. Prevent or avoid? Prevention requires social change. Avoidance is a bit easier.
– Buffy
6 hours ago
Avoidance doesnot solve the issue, it will disseminate more. Of course, it requires social change, however, if there firm regulations that there no racial, ethnic, religious, gender segregation inside academia. Unfortunately, OP mentioned something we all know that bigot is supported by his colleagues and community.
– Monkia
2 hours ago
What is really worse is that there are professors who have bigoted attitude, but dont reveal it and then insidiously can damage and take advantage of you. The best thing you can do asking alumni, it helped and saved me from bigoted and bullied supervisor after having a horrible one.
– Monkia
2 hours ago
2
@Monkia, true enough, but students are badly placed to effect change without damaging their future. Avoidance only keeps you safe. In the long term, work for a better world.
– Buffy
2 hours ago
|
show 2 more comments
1
I think it's even worse than that. An awful lot of bigoted behavior is not only perfectly legal, but will even be defended by the professor's colleagues. However, it's still insidiously damaging to the student and that's what I want to prevent.
– user106152
6 hours ago
2
Hmmm. Prevent or avoid? Prevention requires social change. Avoidance is a bit easier.
– Buffy
6 hours ago
Avoidance doesnot solve the issue, it will disseminate more. Of course, it requires social change, however, if there firm regulations that there no racial, ethnic, religious, gender segregation inside academia. Unfortunately, OP mentioned something we all know that bigot is supported by his colleagues and community.
– Monkia
2 hours ago
What is really worse is that there are professors who have bigoted attitude, but dont reveal it and then insidiously can damage and take advantage of you. The best thing you can do asking alumni, it helped and saved me from bigoted and bullied supervisor after having a horrible one.
– Monkia
2 hours ago
2
@Monkia, true enough, but students are badly placed to effect change without damaging their future. Avoidance only keeps you safe. In the long term, work for a better world.
– Buffy
2 hours ago
1
1
I think it's even worse than that. An awful lot of bigoted behavior is not only perfectly legal, but will even be defended by the professor's colleagues. However, it's still insidiously damaging to the student and that's what I want to prevent.
– user106152
6 hours ago
I think it's even worse than that. An awful lot of bigoted behavior is not only perfectly legal, but will even be defended by the professor's colleagues. However, it's still insidiously damaging to the student and that's what I want to prevent.
– user106152
6 hours ago
2
2
Hmmm. Prevent or avoid? Prevention requires social change. Avoidance is a bit easier.
– Buffy
6 hours ago
Hmmm. Prevent or avoid? Prevention requires social change. Avoidance is a bit easier.
– Buffy
6 hours ago
Avoidance doesnot solve the issue, it will disseminate more. Of course, it requires social change, however, if there firm regulations that there no racial, ethnic, religious, gender segregation inside academia. Unfortunately, OP mentioned something we all know that bigot is supported by his colleagues and community.
– Monkia
2 hours ago
Avoidance doesnot solve the issue, it will disseminate more. Of course, it requires social change, however, if there firm regulations that there no racial, ethnic, religious, gender segregation inside academia. Unfortunately, OP mentioned something we all know that bigot is supported by his colleagues and community.
– Monkia
2 hours ago
What is really worse is that there are professors who have bigoted attitude, but dont reveal it and then insidiously can damage and take advantage of you. The best thing you can do asking alumni, it helped and saved me from bigoted and bullied supervisor after having a horrible one.
– Monkia
2 hours ago
What is really worse is that there are professors who have bigoted attitude, but dont reveal it and then insidiously can damage and take advantage of you. The best thing you can do asking alumni, it helped and saved me from bigoted and bullied supervisor after having a horrible one.
– Monkia
2 hours ago
2
2
@Monkia, true enough, but students are badly placed to effect change without damaging their future. Avoidance only keeps you safe. In the long term, work for a better world.
– Buffy
2 hours ago
@Monkia, true enough, but students are badly placed to effect change without damaging their future. Avoidance only keeps you safe. In the long term, work for a better world.
– Buffy
2 hours ago
|
show 2 more comments
user106152 is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
user106152 is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
user106152 is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
user106152 is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
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5
It's often possible to obtain a list of the previous students of an advisor. A record of having supervised a diverse group of MS or PhD advisees is probably a good sign.
– Brian Borchers
6 hours ago
2
Hmm, how do supervisors deal with students who are bigots? Or are all students perfect?
– Solar Mike
6 hours ago
2
@SolarMike All students, by definition, don't have a huge amount of power over their supervisor's careers.
– user106152
6 hours ago
2
@SolarMike You must know that you're just encouraging any future trolls who might come along. My premise is that power is a fundamental part of being able to harm someone through bigotry.
– user106152
5 hours ago
2
I don't get the close-votes so far. How is this question "primarily opinion-based" or "too broad"? The OP is asking for specific advice about a specific situation.
– Elizabeth Henning
3 hours ago