Why isn't it “had handed” in “the girl alleged that her mother handed her over”?It was unclear that she has/had painted the doorWhy do we structure dialogue/direct speech the way that we do?
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Why isn't it “had handed” in “the girl alleged that her mother handed her over”?
It was unclear that she has/had painted the doorWhy do we structure dialogue/direct speech the way that we do?
.everyoneloves__top-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__mid-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__bot-mid-leaderboard:empty margin-bottom:0;
In the following reported speech:
The girl alleged that her mother handed her over to a pimp and was taking Rs 40,000 from him every month.
— Times of India Newspaper, 1st May 2018
Why is it not:
... had handed her over ...
as per the reported speech rule?
indirect-speech backshifting
edited Oct 28 '18 at 21:04
Laurel
35.1k668122
asked May 2 '18 at 12:39
TheMdsami33TheMdsami33
218
bumped to the homepage by Community♦ 32 mins ago
This question has answers that may be good or bad; the system has marked it active so that they can be reviewed.
|
show 2 more comments
In the following reported speech:
The girl alleged that her mother handed her over to a pimp and was taking Rs 40,000 from him every month.
— Times of India Newspaper, 1st May 2018
Why is it not:
... had handed her over ...
as per the reported speech rule?
indirect-speech backshifting
edited Oct 28 '18 at 21:04
Laurel
35.1k668122
asked May 2 '18 at 12:39
TheMdsami33TheMdsami33
218
bumped to the homepage by Community♦ 32 mins ago
This question has answers that may be good or bad; the system has marked it active so that they can be reviewed.
What is that reported speech rule?
– mahmud koya
May 2 '18 at 13:55
Indirect Speech...
– TheMdsami33
May 2 '18 at 13:59
1
There is no reported speech in the question. By that I mean one cannot surmise that it is. The journalist may not be incorporating the girl's exact words into his/her sentence.
– Lambie
May 2 '18 at 14:51
1
Backshifting to the past perfect is not mandatory when clarity is not impaired. Here, 'handed her over' obviously precedes the monthly payments and the allegation.
– Edwin Ashworth
May 29 '18 at 10:26
1
Because it is not obligatory to backshift from a past tense when reporting speech. It is optional. Thus the rule you refer to is wrong, or at best an over-generalization; it may be a rule that teachers or websites use to teach indirect speech; but this does not mean it actually describes how native speakers report speech.
– 9fyj'j55-8ujfr5yhjky-'tt6yhkjj
May 30 '18 at 6:23
|
show 2 more comments
In the following reported speech:
The girl alleged that her mother handed her over to a pimp and was taking Rs 40,000 from him every month.
— Times of India Newspaper, 1st May 2018
Why is it not:
... had handed her over ...
as per the reported speech rule?
indirect-speech backshifting
edited Oct 28 '18 at 21:04
Laurel
35.1k668122
asked May 2 '18 at 12:39
TheMdsami33TheMdsami33
218
In the following reported speech:
The girl alleged that her mother handed her over to a pimp and was taking Rs 40,000 from him every month.
— Times of India Newspaper, 1st May 2018
Why is it not:
... had handed her over ...
as per the reported speech rule?
indirect-speech backshifting
indirect-speech backshifting
edited Oct 28 '18 at 21:04
Laurel
35.1k668122
asked May 2 '18 at 12:39
TheMdsami33TheMdsami33
218
edited Oct 28 '18 at 21:04
Laurel
35.1k668122
asked May 2 '18 at 12:39
TheMdsami33TheMdsami33
218
edited Oct 28 '18 at 21:04
Laurel
35.1k668122
edited Oct 28 '18 at 21:04
Laurel
35.1k668122
edited Oct 28 '18 at 21:04
Laurel
35.1k668122
35.1k668122
asked May 2 '18 at 12:39
TheMdsami33TheMdsami33
218
asked May 2 '18 at 12:39
TheMdsami33TheMdsami33
218
asked May 2 '18 at 12:39
TheMdsami33TheMdsami33
218
218
bumped to the homepage by Community♦ 32 mins ago
This question has answers that may be good or bad; the system has marked it active so that they can be reviewed.
bumped to the homepage by Community♦ 32 mins ago
This question has answers that may be good or bad; the system has marked it active so that they can be reviewed.
What is that reported speech rule?
– mahmud koya
May 2 '18 at 13:55
Indirect Speech...
– TheMdsami33
May 2 '18 at 13:59
1
There is no reported speech in the question. By that I mean one cannot surmise that it is. The journalist may not be incorporating the girl's exact words into his/her sentence.
– Lambie
May 2 '18 at 14:51
1
Backshifting to the past perfect is not mandatory when clarity is not impaired. Here, 'handed her over' obviously precedes the monthly payments and the allegation.
– Edwin Ashworth
May 29 '18 at 10:26
1
Because it is not obligatory to backshift from a past tense when reporting speech. It is optional. Thus the rule you refer to is wrong, or at best an over-generalization; it may be a rule that teachers or websites use to teach indirect speech; but this does not mean it actually describes how native speakers report speech.
– 9fyj'j55-8ujfr5yhjky-'tt6yhkjj
May 30 '18 at 6:23
|
show 2 more comments
What is that reported speech rule?
– mahmud koya
May 2 '18 at 13:55
Indirect Speech...
– TheMdsami33
May 2 '18 at 13:59
1
There is no reported speech in the question. By that I mean one cannot surmise that it is. The journalist may not be incorporating the girl's exact words into his/her sentence.
– Lambie
May 2 '18 at 14:51
1
Backshifting to the past perfect is not mandatory when clarity is not impaired. Here, 'handed her over' obviously precedes the monthly payments and the allegation.
– Edwin Ashworth
May 29 '18 at 10:26
1
Because it is not obligatory to backshift from a past tense when reporting speech. It is optional. Thus the rule you refer to is wrong, or at best an over-generalization; it may be a rule that teachers or websites use to teach indirect speech; but this does not mean it actually describes how native speakers report speech.
– 9fyj'j55-8ujfr5yhjky-'tt6yhkjj
May 30 '18 at 6:23
What is that reported speech rule?
– mahmud koya
May 2 '18 at 13:55
What is that reported speech rule?
– mahmud koya
May 2 '18 at 13:55
Indirect Speech...
– TheMdsami33
May 2 '18 at 13:59
Indirect Speech...
– TheMdsami33
May 2 '18 at 13:59
1
1
There is no reported speech in the question. By that I mean one cannot surmise that it is. The journalist may not be incorporating the girl's exact words into his/her sentence.
– Lambie
May 2 '18 at 14:51
There is no reported speech in the question. By that I mean one cannot surmise that it is. The journalist may not be incorporating the girl's exact words into his/her sentence.
– Lambie
May 2 '18 at 14:51
1
1
Backshifting to the past perfect is not mandatory when clarity is not impaired. Here, 'handed her over' obviously precedes the monthly payments and the allegation.
– Edwin Ashworth
May 29 '18 at 10:26
Backshifting to the past perfect is not mandatory when clarity is not impaired. Here, 'handed her over' obviously precedes the monthly payments and the allegation.
– Edwin Ashworth
May 29 '18 at 10:26
1
1
Because it is not obligatory to backshift from a past tense when reporting speech. It is optional. Thus the rule you refer to is wrong, or at best an over-generalization; it may be a rule that teachers or websites use to teach indirect speech; but this does not mean it actually describes how native speakers report speech.
– 9fyj'j55-8ujfr5yhjky-'tt6yhkjj
May 30 '18 at 6:23
Because it is not obligatory to backshift from a past tense when reporting speech. It is optional. Thus the rule you refer to is wrong, or at best an over-generalization; it may be a rule that teachers or websites use to teach indirect speech; but this does not mean it actually describes how native speakers report speech.
– 9fyj'j55-8ujfr5yhjky-'tt6yhkjj
May 30 '18 at 6:23
|
show 2 more comments
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
The news story of the TOI in question was told in the Simple Past Tense. If the reporting verb of a direct speech sentence is in the simple past tense and the sentence is changed into indirect or reported speech, normally there should be a back-shifting of the tense of verbs of the direct speech sentence. If the OP's sentence is assumed to be a reported speech sentence, its direct speech version should have been as follows:
The girl alleged, "My mother hands me over to a pimp and is taking Rs 40,000 from him every month".
answered May 2 '18 at 14:35
mahmud koyamahmud koya
6,8384825
But you wrote Incorrect direct speech , It should be " The girl alleged , " My mother handed me over to a pimp and is taking Rs. 40,000 from him every month ".
– TheMdsami33
May 2 '18 at 14:48
1
the direct speech which you wrote , it does not make any sense...
– TheMdsami33
May 2 '18 at 14:49
TheMdsami33 is right. The act of handing over the child was performed in the past, she would tell officers "I was handed over to...."
– Mari-Lou A
May 2 '18 at 14:52
@TheMdsami33, then why should you worry about the rules of the reported speech alone? Why can't you think about the rules of the simple past and past perfect? When we talk about two things happened in the past, the first incident is expressed in the Past Perfect tense and the second one in Simple Past tense. Such a rule is violated here, isn't it?
– mahmud koya
May 2 '18 at 15:12
Mari u r absolutely right, but @mahmud using simple present in direct speech...
– TheMdsami33
May 2 '18 at 15:54
|
show 2 more comments
protected by MetaEd♦ May 29 '18 at 14:42
Thank you for your interest in this question.
Because it has attracted low-quality or spam answers that had to be removed, posting an answer now requires 10 reputation on this site (the association bonus does not count).
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1 Answer
1
active
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1 Answer
1
active
oldest
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active
oldest
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active
oldest
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The news story of the TOI in question was told in the Simple Past Tense. If the reporting verb of a direct speech sentence is in the simple past tense and the sentence is changed into indirect or reported speech, normally there should be a back-shifting of the tense of verbs of the direct speech sentence. If the OP's sentence is assumed to be a reported speech sentence, its direct speech version should have been as follows:
The girl alleged, "My mother hands me over to a pimp and is taking Rs 40,000 from him every month".
answered May 2 '18 at 14:35
mahmud koyamahmud koya
6,8384825
But you wrote Incorrect direct speech , It should be " The girl alleged , " My mother handed me over to a pimp and is taking Rs. 40,000 from him every month ".
– TheMdsami33
May 2 '18 at 14:48
1
the direct speech which you wrote , it does not make any sense...
– TheMdsami33
May 2 '18 at 14:49
TheMdsami33 is right. The act of handing over the child was performed in the past, she would tell officers "I was handed over to...."
– Mari-Lou A
May 2 '18 at 14:52
@TheMdsami33, then why should you worry about the rules of the reported speech alone? Why can't you think about the rules of the simple past and past perfect? When we talk about two things happened in the past, the first incident is expressed in the Past Perfect tense and the second one in Simple Past tense. Such a rule is violated here, isn't it?
– mahmud koya
May 2 '18 at 15:12
Mari u r absolutely right, but @mahmud using simple present in direct speech...
– TheMdsami33
May 2 '18 at 15:54
|
show 2 more comments
The news story of the TOI in question was told in the Simple Past Tense. If the reporting verb of a direct speech sentence is in the simple past tense and the sentence is changed into indirect or reported speech, normally there should be a back-shifting of the tense of verbs of the direct speech sentence. If the OP's sentence is assumed to be a reported speech sentence, its direct speech version should have been as follows:
The girl alleged, "My mother hands me over to a pimp and is taking Rs 40,000 from him every month".
answered May 2 '18 at 14:35
mahmud koyamahmud koya
6,8384825
But you wrote Incorrect direct speech , It should be " The girl alleged , " My mother handed me over to a pimp and is taking Rs. 40,000 from him every month ".
– TheMdsami33
May 2 '18 at 14:48
1
the direct speech which you wrote , it does not make any sense...
– TheMdsami33
May 2 '18 at 14:49
TheMdsami33 is right. The act of handing over the child was performed in the past, she would tell officers "I was handed over to...."
– Mari-Lou A
May 2 '18 at 14:52
@TheMdsami33, then why should you worry about the rules of the reported speech alone? Why can't you think about the rules of the simple past and past perfect? When we talk about two things happened in the past, the first incident is expressed in the Past Perfect tense and the second one in Simple Past tense. Such a rule is violated here, isn't it?
– mahmud koya
May 2 '18 at 15:12
Mari u r absolutely right, but @mahmud using simple present in direct speech...
– TheMdsami33
May 2 '18 at 15:54
|
show 2 more comments
The news story of the TOI in question was told in the Simple Past Tense. If the reporting verb of a direct speech sentence is in the simple past tense and the sentence is changed into indirect or reported speech, normally there should be a back-shifting of the tense of verbs of the direct speech sentence. If the OP's sentence is assumed to be a reported speech sentence, its direct speech version should have been as follows:
The girl alleged, "My mother hands me over to a pimp and is taking Rs 40,000 from him every month".
answered May 2 '18 at 14:35
mahmud koyamahmud koya
6,8384825
The news story of the TOI in question was told in the Simple Past Tense. If the reporting verb of a direct speech sentence is in the simple past tense and the sentence is changed into indirect or reported speech, normally there should be a back-shifting of the tense of verbs of the direct speech sentence. If the OP's sentence is assumed to be a reported speech sentence, its direct speech version should have been as follows:
The girl alleged, "My mother hands me over to a pimp and is taking Rs 40,000 from him every month".
answered May 2 '18 at 14:35
mahmud koyamahmud koya
6,8384825
answered May 2 '18 at 14:35
mahmud koyamahmud koya
6,8384825
answered May 2 '18 at 14:35
mahmud koyamahmud koya
6,8384825
answered May 2 '18 at 14:35
mahmud koyamahmud koya
6,8384825
6,8384825
But you wrote Incorrect direct speech , It should be " The girl alleged , " My mother handed me over to a pimp and is taking Rs. 40,000 from him every month ".
– TheMdsami33
May 2 '18 at 14:48
1
the direct speech which you wrote , it does not make any sense...
– TheMdsami33
May 2 '18 at 14:49
TheMdsami33 is right. The act of handing over the child was performed in the past, she would tell officers "I was handed over to...."
– Mari-Lou A
May 2 '18 at 14:52
@TheMdsami33, then why should you worry about the rules of the reported speech alone? Why can't you think about the rules of the simple past and past perfect? When we talk about two things happened in the past, the first incident is expressed in the Past Perfect tense and the second one in Simple Past tense. Such a rule is violated here, isn't it?
– mahmud koya
May 2 '18 at 15:12
Mari u r absolutely right, but @mahmud using simple present in direct speech...
– TheMdsami33
May 2 '18 at 15:54
|
show 2 more comments
But you wrote Incorrect direct speech , It should be " The girl alleged , " My mother handed me over to a pimp and is taking Rs. 40,000 from him every month ".
– TheMdsami33
May 2 '18 at 14:48
1
the direct speech which you wrote , it does not make any sense...
– TheMdsami33
May 2 '18 at 14:49
TheMdsami33 is right. The act of handing over the child was performed in the past, she would tell officers "I was handed over to...."
– Mari-Lou A
May 2 '18 at 14:52
@TheMdsami33, then why should you worry about the rules of the reported speech alone? Why can't you think about the rules of the simple past and past perfect? When we talk about two things happened in the past, the first incident is expressed in the Past Perfect tense and the second one in Simple Past tense. Such a rule is violated here, isn't it?
– mahmud koya
May 2 '18 at 15:12
Mari u r absolutely right, but @mahmud using simple present in direct speech...
– TheMdsami33
May 2 '18 at 15:54
But you wrote Incorrect direct speech , It should be " The girl alleged , " My mother handed me over to a pimp and is taking Rs. 40,000 from him every month ".
– TheMdsami33
May 2 '18 at 14:48
But you wrote Incorrect direct speech , It should be " The girl alleged , " My mother handed me over to a pimp and is taking Rs. 40,000 from him every month ".
– TheMdsami33
May 2 '18 at 14:48
1
1
the direct speech which you wrote , it does not make any sense...
– TheMdsami33
May 2 '18 at 14:49
the direct speech which you wrote , it does not make any sense...
– TheMdsami33
May 2 '18 at 14:49
TheMdsami33 is right. The act of handing over the child was performed in the past, she would tell officers "I was handed over to...."
– Mari-Lou A
May 2 '18 at 14:52
TheMdsami33 is right. The act of handing over the child was performed in the past, she would tell officers "I was handed over to...."
– Mari-Lou A
May 2 '18 at 14:52
@TheMdsami33, then why should you worry about the rules of the reported speech alone? Why can't you think about the rules of the simple past and past perfect? When we talk about two things happened in the past, the first incident is expressed in the Past Perfect tense and the second one in Simple Past tense. Such a rule is violated here, isn't it?
– mahmud koya
May 2 '18 at 15:12
@TheMdsami33, then why should you worry about the rules of the reported speech alone? Why can't you think about the rules of the simple past and past perfect? When we talk about two things happened in the past, the first incident is expressed in the Past Perfect tense and the second one in Simple Past tense. Such a rule is violated here, isn't it?
– mahmud koya
May 2 '18 at 15:12
Mari u r absolutely right, but @mahmud using simple present in direct speech...
– TheMdsami33
May 2 '18 at 15:54
Mari u r absolutely right, but @mahmud using simple present in direct speech...
– TheMdsami33
May 2 '18 at 15:54
|
show 2 more comments
protected by MetaEd♦ May 29 '18 at 14:42
Thank you for your interest in this question.
Because it has attracted low-quality or spam answers that had to be removed, posting an answer now requires 10 reputation on this site (the association bonus does not count).
Would you like to answer one of these unanswered questions instead?
What is that reported speech rule?
– mahmud koya
May 2 '18 at 13:55
Indirect Speech...
– TheMdsami33
May 2 '18 at 13:59
1
There is no reported speech in the question. By that I mean one cannot surmise that it is. The journalist may not be incorporating the girl's exact words into his/her sentence.
– Lambie
May 2 '18 at 14:51
1
Backshifting to the past perfect is not mandatory when clarity is not impaired. Here, 'handed her over' obviously precedes the monthly payments and the allegation.
– Edwin Ashworth
May 29 '18 at 10:26
1
Because it is not obligatory to backshift from a past tense when reporting speech. It is optional. Thus the rule you refer to is wrong, or at best an over-generalization; it may be a rule that teachers or websites use to teach indirect speech; but this does not mean it actually describes how native speakers report speech.
– 9fyj'j55-8ujfr5yhjky-'tt6yhkjj
May 30 '18 at 6:23