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Would an alien lifeform be able to achieve space travel if lacking in vision?
The 2019 Stack Overflow Developer Survey Results Are In
Unicorn Meta Zoo #1: Why another podcast?
Announcing the arrival of Valued Associate #679: Cesar Manara
The network's official Twitter account is up and running again. What content…Could a species develop the tech necessary to land on their own moon without comprehending light?How can an intelligent race on a methane world achieve basic space travel (e.g. satellites)?Would intelligent life evolve any other body plan than humanoid?What kind of senses could exist?How would precognitive aliens deal with not being able to see the future clearly?How would eco-friendly Space Travel Work?Alien electromagnetic visionHow would a highly mutagenic (or shape-shifting) species have to adapt physiologically to achieve space travel?Would an alien species be able to make the same sounds the human voice can produce?A lingua franca for aliens in a galactic zooWould interplanetary transmissions in the Wolf 359 star system be detectable by Earth?
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Think of this alien life form as something resembling earth bats, placed in a planet with Earth-like conditions.
- Micro-bats have small and poorly developed eyes. Similarly, this alien species is completely blind, with the only exception that they can detect ultraviolet in low levels.
- They make use of magneto-reception, like birds on Earth, but hundreds of times more efficiently. They can differentiate their world's magnetic field (north-south) and latitudes when covering long-distance journeys.
Echolocation: perhaps the most interesting part. They are able to emit ultrasonic sounds and receive returning echoes to detect, localize and classify their surroundings. They emit a continuous call, just like bat calls, ranging in intensity from 50/60 to 140 decibels.
Humans on the other hand, rely on vision to translate and process data from our environment. We need to see things in order to accomplish even the simplest task. Still, here on Earth we find species that don't need eye-sight to survive.
But, when talking about space, sight is necessary to understand the cosmos. All our missions wouldn't have been accomplished if we were not able to see it. Considering all the sensory systems I listed for this hypothetical alien species: how could they achieve space travel? How could they even perceive the notion of the universe itself if they were not even able to look at it?
science-based aliens xenobiology space-travel
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Think of this alien life form as something resembling earth bats, placed in a planet with Earth-like conditions.
- Micro-bats have small and poorly developed eyes. Similarly, this alien species is completely blind, with the only exception that they can detect ultraviolet in low levels.
- They make use of magneto-reception, like birds on Earth, but hundreds of times more efficiently. They can differentiate their world's magnetic field (north-south) and latitudes when covering long-distance journeys.
Echolocation: perhaps the most interesting part. They are able to emit ultrasonic sounds and receive returning echoes to detect, localize and classify their surroundings. They emit a continuous call, just like bat calls, ranging in intensity from 50/60 to 140 decibels.
Humans on the other hand, rely on vision to translate and process data from our environment. We need to see things in order to accomplish even the simplest task. Still, here on Earth we find species that don't need eye-sight to survive.
But, when talking about space, sight is necessary to understand the cosmos. All our missions wouldn't have been accomplished if we were not able to see it. Considering all the sensory systems I listed for this hypothetical alien species: how could they achieve space travel? How could they even perceive the notion of the universe itself if they were not even able to look at it?
science-based aliens xenobiology space-travel
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The critical invention is a "display" that will enable them to perceive and understand the output of an electromagnetic sensing device. Once they've achieved that, there's nothing to stop them using radar, lidar and everything else, and in astronomical terms they'll be no more blind than us. Their only limitations are the "resolution" of such a display, but that's a minor handicap on the grand scale of things.
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– Starfish Prime
8 hours ago
1
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Possible duplicate of Could a species develop the tech necessary to land on their own moon without comprehending light?
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– JBH
7 hours ago
1
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Note that the ultraviolet range of the spectrum covers wavelengths from 10nm to 400nm (a 390nm range), while the visible light spectrum covers wavelengths from 380nm to 740nm (a 360nm range). The upper and lower bounds of our vision covers about a two-fold change in photon energy, but for the bats, it's more like a forty-fold change in energy. Your bats have a wider color spectrum than humans!
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– Nuclear Wang
3 hours ago
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They might achieve it faster since they would have a pressing mystery of why it is hot during the day.
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– John
1 hour ago
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@JBH -- I address that in my answer. Notice also that the two questions dòn't yield the same answers. If I had answered your question, the answer would have been "hell no!" --- using only taste, smell, touch, thermosensation, pressure, and any of the twenty-some other senses humans have, we'd have no way of knowing anything beyond a warm sòmething that crosses above us. This question is different because it specifies vision-like senses that are distinct from human vision, and indeed, allows for senses humans lack.
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– elemtilas
30 mins ago
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show 8 more comments
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Think of this alien life form as something resembling earth bats, placed in a planet with Earth-like conditions.
- Micro-bats have small and poorly developed eyes. Similarly, this alien species is completely blind, with the only exception that they can detect ultraviolet in low levels.
- They make use of magneto-reception, like birds on Earth, but hundreds of times more efficiently. They can differentiate their world's magnetic field (north-south) and latitudes when covering long-distance journeys.
Echolocation: perhaps the most interesting part. They are able to emit ultrasonic sounds and receive returning echoes to detect, localize and classify their surroundings. They emit a continuous call, just like bat calls, ranging in intensity from 50/60 to 140 decibels.
Humans on the other hand, rely on vision to translate and process data from our environment. We need to see things in order to accomplish even the simplest task. Still, here on Earth we find species that don't need eye-sight to survive.
But, when talking about space, sight is necessary to understand the cosmos. All our missions wouldn't have been accomplished if we were not able to see it. Considering all the sensory systems I listed for this hypothetical alien species: how could they achieve space travel? How could they even perceive the notion of the universe itself if they were not even able to look at it?
science-based aliens xenobiology space-travel
New contributor
$endgroup$
Think of this alien life form as something resembling earth bats, placed in a planet with Earth-like conditions.
- Micro-bats have small and poorly developed eyes. Similarly, this alien species is completely blind, with the only exception that they can detect ultraviolet in low levels.
- They make use of magneto-reception, like birds on Earth, but hundreds of times more efficiently. They can differentiate their world's magnetic field (north-south) and latitudes when covering long-distance journeys.
Echolocation: perhaps the most interesting part. They are able to emit ultrasonic sounds and receive returning echoes to detect, localize and classify their surroundings. They emit a continuous call, just like bat calls, ranging in intensity from 50/60 to 140 decibels.
Humans on the other hand, rely on vision to translate and process data from our environment. We need to see things in order to accomplish even the simplest task. Still, here on Earth we find species that don't need eye-sight to survive.
But, when talking about space, sight is necessary to understand the cosmos. All our missions wouldn't have been accomplished if we were not able to see it. Considering all the sensory systems I listed for this hypothetical alien species: how could they achieve space travel? How could they even perceive the notion of the universe itself if they were not even able to look at it?
science-based aliens xenobiology space-travel
science-based aliens xenobiology space-travel
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New contributor
edited 8 hours ago
L.Dutch♦
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91k29211438
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asked 9 hours ago
Liam00Liam00
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The critical invention is a "display" that will enable them to perceive and understand the output of an electromagnetic sensing device. Once they've achieved that, there's nothing to stop them using radar, lidar and everything else, and in astronomical terms they'll be no more blind than us. Their only limitations are the "resolution" of such a display, but that's a minor handicap on the grand scale of things.
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– Starfish Prime
8 hours ago
1
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Possible duplicate of Could a species develop the tech necessary to land on their own moon without comprehending light?
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– JBH
7 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
Note that the ultraviolet range of the spectrum covers wavelengths from 10nm to 400nm (a 390nm range), while the visible light spectrum covers wavelengths from 380nm to 740nm (a 360nm range). The upper and lower bounds of our vision covers about a two-fold change in photon energy, but for the bats, it's more like a forty-fold change in energy. Your bats have a wider color spectrum than humans!
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– Nuclear Wang
3 hours ago
1
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They might achieve it faster since they would have a pressing mystery of why it is hot during the day.
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– John
1 hour ago
1
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@JBH -- I address that in my answer. Notice also that the two questions dòn't yield the same answers. If I had answered your question, the answer would have been "hell no!" --- using only taste, smell, touch, thermosensation, pressure, and any of the twenty-some other senses humans have, we'd have no way of knowing anything beyond a warm sòmething that crosses above us. This question is different because it specifies vision-like senses that are distinct from human vision, and indeed, allows for senses humans lack.
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– elemtilas
30 mins ago
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show 8 more comments
1
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The critical invention is a "display" that will enable them to perceive and understand the output of an electromagnetic sensing device. Once they've achieved that, there's nothing to stop them using radar, lidar and everything else, and in astronomical terms they'll be no more blind than us. Their only limitations are the "resolution" of such a display, but that's a minor handicap on the grand scale of things.
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– Starfish Prime
8 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
Possible duplicate of Could a species develop the tech necessary to land on their own moon without comprehending light?
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– JBH
7 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
Note that the ultraviolet range of the spectrum covers wavelengths from 10nm to 400nm (a 390nm range), while the visible light spectrum covers wavelengths from 380nm to 740nm (a 360nm range). The upper and lower bounds of our vision covers about a two-fold change in photon energy, but for the bats, it's more like a forty-fold change in energy. Your bats have a wider color spectrum than humans!
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– Nuclear Wang
3 hours ago
1
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They might achieve it faster since they would have a pressing mystery of why it is hot during the day.
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– John
1 hour ago
1
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@JBH -- I address that in my answer. Notice also that the two questions dòn't yield the same answers. If I had answered your question, the answer would have been "hell no!" --- using only taste, smell, touch, thermosensation, pressure, and any of the twenty-some other senses humans have, we'd have no way of knowing anything beyond a warm sòmething that crosses above us. This question is different because it specifies vision-like senses that are distinct from human vision, and indeed, allows for senses humans lack.
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– elemtilas
30 mins ago
1
1
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The critical invention is a "display" that will enable them to perceive and understand the output of an electromagnetic sensing device. Once they've achieved that, there's nothing to stop them using radar, lidar and everything else, and in astronomical terms they'll be no more blind than us. Their only limitations are the "resolution" of such a display, but that's a minor handicap on the grand scale of things.
$endgroup$
– Starfish Prime
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
The critical invention is a "display" that will enable them to perceive and understand the output of an electromagnetic sensing device. Once they've achieved that, there's nothing to stop them using radar, lidar and everything else, and in astronomical terms they'll be no more blind than us. Their only limitations are the "resolution" of such a display, but that's a minor handicap on the grand scale of things.
$endgroup$
– Starfish Prime
8 hours ago
1
1
$begingroup$
Possible duplicate of Could a species develop the tech necessary to land on their own moon without comprehending light?
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– JBH
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
Possible duplicate of Could a species develop the tech necessary to land on their own moon without comprehending light?
$endgroup$
– JBH
7 hours ago
1
1
$begingroup$
Note that the ultraviolet range of the spectrum covers wavelengths from 10nm to 400nm (a 390nm range), while the visible light spectrum covers wavelengths from 380nm to 740nm (a 360nm range). The upper and lower bounds of our vision covers about a two-fold change in photon energy, but for the bats, it's more like a forty-fold change in energy. Your bats have a wider color spectrum than humans!
$endgroup$
– Nuclear Wang
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
Note that the ultraviolet range of the spectrum covers wavelengths from 10nm to 400nm (a 390nm range), while the visible light spectrum covers wavelengths from 380nm to 740nm (a 360nm range). The upper and lower bounds of our vision covers about a two-fold change in photon energy, but for the bats, it's more like a forty-fold change in energy. Your bats have a wider color spectrum than humans!
$endgroup$
– Nuclear Wang
3 hours ago
1
1
$begingroup$
They might achieve it faster since they would have a pressing mystery of why it is hot during the day.
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– John
1 hour ago
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They might achieve it faster since they would have a pressing mystery of why it is hot during the day.
$endgroup$
– John
1 hour ago
1
1
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@JBH -- I address that in my answer. Notice also that the two questions dòn't yield the same answers. If I had answered your question, the answer would have been "hell no!" --- using only taste, smell, touch, thermosensation, pressure, and any of the twenty-some other senses humans have, we'd have no way of knowing anything beyond a warm sòmething that crosses above us. This question is different because it specifies vision-like senses that are distinct from human vision, and indeed, allows for senses humans lack.
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– elemtilas
30 mins ago
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@JBH -- I address that in my answer. Notice also that the two questions dòn't yield the same answers. If I had answered your question, the answer would have been "hell no!" --- using only taste, smell, touch, thermosensation, pressure, and any of the twenty-some other senses humans have, we'd have no way of knowing anything beyond a warm sòmething that crosses above us. This question is different because it specifies vision-like senses that are distinct from human vision, and indeed, allows for senses humans lack.
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– elemtilas
30 mins ago
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show 8 more comments
9 Answers
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sight is necessary to understand the cosmos
If with sight you mean "capability of elaborating electromagnetic waves in the range of the visible spectrum", the statement is simply wrong. We have just got the report that the first image of a black hole event horizon was taken thanks to observation in the radio-frequencies.
So, no, sight is not strictly necessary to understand the cosmos. It is true that the broader spectrum one can analyze the more information can harvest, but lacking a fraction of the spectrum is no showstopper.
Also on a human scale, several space missions have succeeded in exploring space without having a camera for exploration. Just think of the Sputnik: it didn't have a camera, so technically it was blind.
And even we don't need to view something to understand it. Whoever takes calculus at a university level can describe your with extreme precision the properties of a multidimensional surface without visualizing it, just by studying the function representing it. And, if you object that calculus is not exactly a standard knowledge, even visually impaired people get a good understanding of the world without seeing it.
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I get your point, but you are talking about inanimate human-made objects, not a sentient lifeform. We still need to convert their data into visual representations to understand it
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– Liam00
8 hours ago
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@Liam00 Could your lifeforms possibly do the same? Use technology to convert visual data into a form they could "see"? Vision has physical components that can be replicated and although that cannot see light, they may sense evidence of its existance.
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– matildalee23
7 hours ago
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would magno-reception pick up the sun?
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– John
1 hour ago
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@John, the OP specifically said, "magneto-reception, like birds on Earth." That isn't vision, and it wouldn't pick up the sun no matter how sensitive.
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– JBH
35 mins ago
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"We need to see things in order to accomplish even the simplest task." is quickly debunked by even the briefest consideration of lives of blind scientists here on earth.
Human's lack of natural ability to see x-rays has not diminished our capacity to detect, measure, utilize, and interact with x-rays.
If a society develops to the point of being able to produce electronics and radio technology, then they will have little trouble "discovering" the stars. If they cannot 'see' something naturally, then they will be able to build tools and systems to translate emissions into a data-stream that they can interact with. Exactly the same as humans have done.
Can't see something in nature? Observe its effects as it interacts with something else that you can detect, and use that property to study the phenomenon.
Can't see x-rays? Observe how they cause some materials for fluoresce when struck with x-rays, and use that to explore, study, and refine how you can interact with them.
Can't see anything? Observe how light interacts with specific electronics, and develop a photo-diode or similar to construct tones or vibrations that you can observe, and build that into greater and more refined sensing technology.
You may wish to consider the fact that earth has blind astronomers. There is far more to space related research than being able to see it with your own eyes.
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Hmmm... our ability to detect and manipulate X-rays came from our investigation of light which came as a result of sight. Can you justify how X-rays can be detected without sight? This sounds like illogical logic. I'm not entirely convinced a sightless person, regardless what other senses they have, can develop electronics (or anything having to do with electromagnetics). "If a society develops..." doesn't justify "therefore they can."
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– JBH
50 mins ago
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X-rays are on the same overall spectrum as visible light, which along with infrared - If they can feel the warmth of the sun, vs when they are in the cool of a shade, then they have a sensory foundation to begin exploring that field of science. Electromagnetic sciences can be discovered through sound: When magnets collide they make a sound - Why does that thing make a sound and make stuff move? ... SCIENCE! > An excuse to explore, learn, and experiment.
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– TheLuckless
46 mins ago
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You're looking at this from the perspective of a sighted person. What they can feel is heat, such as heat from a volcano or a hot spring, which they can experience and understand. It's a massive leap from that to, "there must be a sun!" which they cannot experience and cannot understand.
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– JBH
42 mins ago
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For the fun of the discussion, let me walk you through something. A blind person's first experience with lightning-generated fire. They know nothing about lightning, all they know is something went "boom!" They know nothing about fire, all they know is they got burned when they got too close. They can't see the destructive force of fire, but they could touch/taste the charcoal remains. How do they get from this to rubbing two sticks together? It's not obvious at all that they ever could. And you need to do that long before space travel.
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– JBH
38 mins ago
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Find fire in nature? - Well, you can Hear it, and FEEL the heat from it. You can feel it burning if you get too close to it. You can (hopefully quickly) learn about the damaging effects it has if you get too close to it. You can learn hot things can cause fire, and in turn figure out "Things that makes stuff hot"... > Continue train of thought to SCIENCE! and progression.
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– TheLuckless
31 mins ago
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I think your aliens would be better adapted to space exploration than humans are.
Echo location is a spatial sense. It gives you directions and distances and via Doppler shift changes in distances. A species with a sense like that would be able to understand something like the solar system much better than a species that relies on a planar sense tricked up to boost hand eye coordination so that you do not fall out of a tree.
It also maps directly into radar which works with exact same principles and has exact same limitations and advantages. Except it works in space. And radar is a human version so it needs a conversion to something us poor humans can understand. Your aliens would do much better since they would understand all the data about spatial data and movement directly.
You'd need an "echo display" that gives the proper audio response based on computer data and the sounds it receives but apart from being larger and lower resolution that visual analogues it is not that complex.
Generally changing vision to echo location loses things useless for space exploration such as ability to see detail and color and gives useful things such as better spatial sense and sense of motion.
And they also have a superior magnetic field sense. They could sense the planetary magnetic field, large ferrous objects moving in it, the direction the solar wind is coming from. They'd probably know where the sun is even at night.
In space they'd probably feel the solar magnetic field. Certainly the ship could have systems to allow them to do so. And to feel the movement of the ship and even the movements of the planets. Or other ships. And then there is the glorious stuff elemtilas talks about.
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Excellent response! But I have a question: how does this species know there's anything Out There to begin with? Echolocation only works in a medium (like water or air) --- it's sound waves.
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– elemtilas
14 mins ago
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Of Course!
That is, assuming these people have the intelligence, resources, sciences, temperament, desire, technological advancements, etc., etc.
If you can see this in the sky:
And something like this orbits your planet:
Then you're more than equipped to get out and take a good look at this:
All of those things should be "visible" to a species who can see magnetic fields the way we see light.
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"Magneto-reception, like birds on Earth" is not the ability to see magnetic fields.
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– JBH
49 mins ago
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@JBH Indeed --- but it's also "hundreds of times" better than what birds can do!
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– elemtilas
37 mins ago
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Birds don't see magnetic lines. They merely sense it - like our sensing the passing of wind over our fingertips. I rarely downvote one of your answers, but this one I must. This isn't representing what the OP described.
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– JBH
34 mins ago
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@JBH --- As I said! It's "hundreds of times" better! The OP doesn't specify the actual nature & limitations of the sense in question, so I am presenting a possibility that will get the job done. I mean, birds' senses are pretty damn cool as they are. Keep in mind that our eyes evolved from a sensory patches that could basically detect light or dark. And now we can see colours and shapes and hues and detect movement and judge distances and all kinds of things with our eyes! If a species evolves from an ancestral form that can sense magnetic fields but is now hundreds of times more efficient...
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– elemtilas
18 mins ago
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I see no reason not to postulate a sense that can "visualise" magnetic fields, and thus take in a broader spectrum of data. Obviously, I don't (and can't!) complain about the down vote --- I'm just happy you explained your rationale!
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– elemtilas
17 mins ago
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I think my answer is: Yes.
Given only echo location it is not possible to discern anything in space or to orient oneself in space. However, to develop space travel, I suppose these aliens would require a high level of technological sophistication anyway. Otherwise some bat would just fly in the direction of "up" and suffocate. Word might get around that this is a bad idea.
If they first develop machinery to enhance their abilities sufficiently they might also realize that space is not just infinite emptiness.
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A bat flying up will run short of breath progressively in the same way as a climber would. (Or a pilot, for that matter.) Mammals have many more senses than just the five though, and sensing which way is "down" is one of them. Of course ours can be fooled by centripetal force, but flying animals are likely better at that.
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– Graham
1 hour ago
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A possible riff off of an echolocation like solution would be to release hundreds of small disposable probes that explode on impact with anything. Then light sensors the aliens have built could read the incoming data, and map out what is around them as a data point in 3D space. They would possibly be able to visualize any object based on their ability to memorize the coordinates reported by their machine, or have the machine create a model in UV or sound that they could "see" or understand. It's kind of like how a cats whiskers provide acute and specific sensory feed back from a specific point which allows the cat to make adjustments to their location with high precision almost instinctively.
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Yes, measuring instruments are more important than senses... and you can have glasses for light polarization
I think the crucial aspect of your alien species is whether or not they are able to build complex measuring instruments and transmit knowledge.
A very important difference between Aristotle and Galileo was that the emphasis the latter put on measurement (rather than their intelligence or available senses). At the time, European manufacture was advanced enough to build the instruments that he and others would require to build up their calculations, and later develop the theories that formed the core of mechanics.
The history of space travel would be very different for your species, depending on the way they are able to perceive gravitation, velocity, mass, etc. For example, the early optical telescope would be useless to them but they would have the capacity to notice the effect of the orbit of the moon in the Earth's magnetic field.
From this humble beginnings, they could develop a different type of orbital mechanics perhaps slower, perhaps faster than humans did. Unfortunately we know very little about magnetoreception to describe a mechanism in detail, but we do know in some materials "magnetic fields can change the way the charged particles (mainly electrons) respond to the light electromagnetic field". On one side, some phenomena that remained a mistery to humans for millions of years would be a part of everyday life for your aliens...
On the other side, with enough tools and technology, your aliens could build themselves some device to perceive light talking advantage of the polarization of light in a similar way in which we have built a ton of things to measure magnetic fields.
PD I don't think sound is relevant for space travel because it doesn't travel in a vacuum.
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It's well within the realm of possibilities. Vision is only necessary for us to because it is what we know. If your alien race's dominant senses are as effective for them, as sight is for us, then they could, quite possibly "sense" the nature of the cosmos in their own way.
As humans, our technology has allowed us to overcome our physical limitations over and over again. If your aliens are intelligent enough to create sophisticated technology. And it evolves similar to ours, then (I would think) lack of sight should be an easy hurdle to jump.
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But, when talking about space, sight is necessary to understand the cosmos.
Really? Or is it just necessary that they be spatially aware?
Open your mind. It will take more work on your part, but you can explain it.
We cannot see X-Rays, but we discovered them... and then figured out how to make machines/devices that represented them in a form that we could understand (see them on photographic plates). And then discovered how they could be useful.
Note that X-Ray radiation killed a lot of the early scientist studying it (via cancer) but that didn't stop them. We learned X-Rays, and then we learned new stuff, and now we have MRIs, use sound waves to measure blood flow, etc.
The sun is easy to "see" without "vision".
They would feel the warmth, even if they couldn't see it. (Or feel effects from it if you want it really far away)
It might take longer to "see" the stars and moon(s) than the sun... but eventually a sentient species of sufficient intelligence would figure it out. First they figure out it is there, then they (eventually) figure out how to get a better view (however you decide that is possible).
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9 Answers
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9 Answers
9
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$begingroup$
sight is necessary to understand the cosmos
If with sight you mean "capability of elaborating electromagnetic waves in the range of the visible spectrum", the statement is simply wrong. We have just got the report that the first image of a black hole event horizon was taken thanks to observation in the radio-frequencies.
So, no, sight is not strictly necessary to understand the cosmos. It is true that the broader spectrum one can analyze the more information can harvest, but lacking a fraction of the spectrum is no showstopper.
Also on a human scale, several space missions have succeeded in exploring space without having a camera for exploration. Just think of the Sputnik: it didn't have a camera, so technically it was blind.
And even we don't need to view something to understand it. Whoever takes calculus at a university level can describe your with extreme precision the properties of a multidimensional surface without visualizing it, just by studying the function representing it. And, if you object that calculus is not exactly a standard knowledge, even visually impaired people get a good understanding of the world without seeing it.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
I get your point, but you are talking about inanimate human-made objects, not a sentient lifeform. We still need to convert their data into visual representations to understand it
$endgroup$
– Liam00
8 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
@Liam00 Could your lifeforms possibly do the same? Use technology to convert visual data into a form they could "see"? Vision has physical components that can be replicated and although that cannot see light, they may sense evidence of its existance.
$endgroup$
– matildalee23
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
would magno-reception pick up the sun?
$endgroup$
– John
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
@John, the OP specifically said, "magneto-reception, like birds on Earth." That isn't vision, and it wouldn't pick up the sun no matter how sensitive.
$endgroup$
– JBH
35 mins ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
sight is necessary to understand the cosmos
If with sight you mean "capability of elaborating electromagnetic waves in the range of the visible spectrum", the statement is simply wrong. We have just got the report that the first image of a black hole event horizon was taken thanks to observation in the radio-frequencies.
So, no, sight is not strictly necessary to understand the cosmos. It is true that the broader spectrum one can analyze the more information can harvest, but lacking a fraction of the spectrum is no showstopper.
Also on a human scale, several space missions have succeeded in exploring space without having a camera for exploration. Just think of the Sputnik: it didn't have a camera, so technically it was blind.
And even we don't need to view something to understand it. Whoever takes calculus at a university level can describe your with extreme precision the properties of a multidimensional surface without visualizing it, just by studying the function representing it. And, if you object that calculus is not exactly a standard knowledge, even visually impaired people get a good understanding of the world without seeing it.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
I get your point, but you are talking about inanimate human-made objects, not a sentient lifeform. We still need to convert their data into visual representations to understand it
$endgroup$
– Liam00
8 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
@Liam00 Could your lifeforms possibly do the same? Use technology to convert visual data into a form they could "see"? Vision has physical components that can be replicated and although that cannot see light, they may sense evidence of its existance.
$endgroup$
– matildalee23
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
would magno-reception pick up the sun?
$endgroup$
– John
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
@John, the OP specifically said, "magneto-reception, like birds on Earth." That isn't vision, and it wouldn't pick up the sun no matter how sensitive.
$endgroup$
– JBH
35 mins ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
sight is necessary to understand the cosmos
If with sight you mean "capability of elaborating electromagnetic waves in the range of the visible spectrum", the statement is simply wrong. We have just got the report that the first image of a black hole event horizon was taken thanks to observation in the radio-frequencies.
So, no, sight is not strictly necessary to understand the cosmos. It is true that the broader spectrum one can analyze the more information can harvest, but lacking a fraction of the spectrum is no showstopper.
Also on a human scale, several space missions have succeeded in exploring space without having a camera for exploration. Just think of the Sputnik: it didn't have a camera, so technically it was blind.
And even we don't need to view something to understand it. Whoever takes calculus at a university level can describe your with extreme precision the properties of a multidimensional surface without visualizing it, just by studying the function representing it. And, if you object that calculus is not exactly a standard knowledge, even visually impaired people get a good understanding of the world without seeing it.
$endgroup$
sight is necessary to understand the cosmos
If with sight you mean "capability of elaborating electromagnetic waves in the range of the visible spectrum", the statement is simply wrong. We have just got the report that the first image of a black hole event horizon was taken thanks to observation in the radio-frequencies.
So, no, sight is not strictly necessary to understand the cosmos. It is true that the broader spectrum one can analyze the more information can harvest, but lacking a fraction of the spectrum is no showstopper.
Also on a human scale, several space missions have succeeded in exploring space without having a camera for exploration. Just think of the Sputnik: it didn't have a camera, so technically it was blind.
And even we don't need to view something to understand it. Whoever takes calculus at a university level can describe your with extreme precision the properties of a multidimensional surface without visualizing it, just by studying the function representing it. And, if you object that calculus is not exactly a standard knowledge, even visually impaired people get a good understanding of the world without seeing it.
edited 8 hours ago
answered 9 hours ago
L.Dutch♦L.Dutch
91k29211438
91k29211438
$begingroup$
I get your point, but you are talking about inanimate human-made objects, not a sentient lifeform. We still need to convert their data into visual representations to understand it
$endgroup$
– Liam00
8 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
@Liam00 Could your lifeforms possibly do the same? Use technology to convert visual data into a form they could "see"? Vision has physical components that can be replicated and although that cannot see light, they may sense evidence of its existance.
$endgroup$
– matildalee23
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
would magno-reception pick up the sun?
$endgroup$
– John
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
@John, the OP specifically said, "magneto-reception, like birds on Earth." That isn't vision, and it wouldn't pick up the sun no matter how sensitive.
$endgroup$
– JBH
35 mins ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
I get your point, but you are talking about inanimate human-made objects, not a sentient lifeform. We still need to convert their data into visual representations to understand it
$endgroup$
– Liam00
8 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
@Liam00 Could your lifeforms possibly do the same? Use technology to convert visual data into a form they could "see"? Vision has physical components that can be replicated and although that cannot see light, they may sense evidence of its existance.
$endgroup$
– matildalee23
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
would magno-reception pick up the sun?
$endgroup$
– John
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
@John, the OP specifically said, "magneto-reception, like birds on Earth." That isn't vision, and it wouldn't pick up the sun no matter how sensitive.
$endgroup$
– JBH
35 mins ago
$begingroup$
I get your point, but you are talking about inanimate human-made objects, not a sentient lifeform. We still need to convert their data into visual representations to understand it
$endgroup$
– Liam00
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
I get your point, but you are talking about inanimate human-made objects, not a sentient lifeform. We still need to convert their data into visual representations to understand it
$endgroup$
– Liam00
8 hours ago
2
2
$begingroup$
@Liam00 Could your lifeforms possibly do the same? Use technology to convert visual data into a form they could "see"? Vision has physical components that can be replicated and although that cannot see light, they may sense evidence of its existance.
$endgroup$
– matildalee23
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Liam00 Could your lifeforms possibly do the same? Use technology to convert visual data into a form they could "see"? Vision has physical components that can be replicated and although that cannot see light, they may sense evidence of its existance.
$endgroup$
– matildalee23
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
would magno-reception pick up the sun?
$endgroup$
– John
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
would magno-reception pick up the sun?
$endgroup$
– John
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
@John, the OP specifically said, "magneto-reception, like birds on Earth." That isn't vision, and it wouldn't pick up the sun no matter how sensitive.
$endgroup$
– JBH
35 mins ago
$begingroup$
@John, the OP specifically said, "magneto-reception, like birds on Earth." That isn't vision, and it wouldn't pick up the sun no matter how sensitive.
$endgroup$
– JBH
35 mins ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
"We need to see things in order to accomplish even the simplest task." is quickly debunked by even the briefest consideration of lives of blind scientists here on earth.
Human's lack of natural ability to see x-rays has not diminished our capacity to detect, measure, utilize, and interact with x-rays.
If a society develops to the point of being able to produce electronics and radio technology, then they will have little trouble "discovering" the stars. If they cannot 'see' something naturally, then they will be able to build tools and systems to translate emissions into a data-stream that they can interact with. Exactly the same as humans have done.
Can't see something in nature? Observe its effects as it interacts with something else that you can detect, and use that property to study the phenomenon.
Can't see x-rays? Observe how they cause some materials for fluoresce when struck with x-rays, and use that to explore, study, and refine how you can interact with them.
Can't see anything? Observe how light interacts with specific electronics, and develop a photo-diode or similar to construct tones or vibrations that you can observe, and build that into greater and more refined sensing technology.
You may wish to consider the fact that earth has blind astronomers. There is far more to space related research than being able to see it with your own eyes.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Hmmm... our ability to detect and manipulate X-rays came from our investigation of light which came as a result of sight. Can you justify how X-rays can be detected without sight? This sounds like illogical logic. I'm not entirely convinced a sightless person, regardless what other senses they have, can develop electronics (or anything having to do with electromagnetics). "If a society develops..." doesn't justify "therefore they can."
$endgroup$
– JBH
50 mins ago
$begingroup$
X-rays are on the same overall spectrum as visible light, which along with infrared - If they can feel the warmth of the sun, vs when they are in the cool of a shade, then they have a sensory foundation to begin exploring that field of science. Electromagnetic sciences can be discovered through sound: When magnets collide they make a sound - Why does that thing make a sound and make stuff move? ... SCIENCE! > An excuse to explore, learn, and experiment.
$endgroup$
– TheLuckless
46 mins ago
$begingroup$
You're looking at this from the perspective of a sighted person. What they can feel is heat, such as heat from a volcano or a hot spring, which they can experience and understand. It's a massive leap from that to, "there must be a sun!" which they cannot experience and cannot understand.
$endgroup$
– JBH
42 mins ago
$begingroup$
For the fun of the discussion, let me walk you through something. A blind person's first experience with lightning-generated fire. They know nothing about lightning, all they know is something went "boom!" They know nothing about fire, all they know is they got burned when they got too close. They can't see the destructive force of fire, but they could touch/taste the charcoal remains. How do they get from this to rubbing two sticks together? It's not obvious at all that they ever could. And you need to do that long before space travel.
$endgroup$
– JBH
38 mins ago
$begingroup$
Find fire in nature? - Well, you can Hear it, and FEEL the heat from it. You can feel it burning if you get too close to it. You can (hopefully quickly) learn about the damaging effects it has if you get too close to it. You can learn hot things can cause fire, and in turn figure out "Things that makes stuff hot"... > Continue train of thought to SCIENCE! and progression.
$endgroup$
– TheLuckless
31 mins ago
|
show 3 more comments
$begingroup$
"We need to see things in order to accomplish even the simplest task." is quickly debunked by even the briefest consideration of lives of blind scientists here on earth.
Human's lack of natural ability to see x-rays has not diminished our capacity to detect, measure, utilize, and interact with x-rays.
If a society develops to the point of being able to produce electronics and radio technology, then they will have little trouble "discovering" the stars. If they cannot 'see' something naturally, then they will be able to build tools and systems to translate emissions into a data-stream that they can interact with. Exactly the same as humans have done.
Can't see something in nature? Observe its effects as it interacts with something else that you can detect, and use that property to study the phenomenon.
Can't see x-rays? Observe how they cause some materials for fluoresce when struck with x-rays, and use that to explore, study, and refine how you can interact with them.
Can't see anything? Observe how light interacts with specific electronics, and develop a photo-diode or similar to construct tones or vibrations that you can observe, and build that into greater and more refined sensing technology.
You may wish to consider the fact that earth has blind astronomers. There is far more to space related research than being able to see it with your own eyes.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Hmmm... our ability to detect and manipulate X-rays came from our investigation of light which came as a result of sight. Can you justify how X-rays can be detected without sight? This sounds like illogical logic. I'm not entirely convinced a sightless person, regardless what other senses they have, can develop electronics (or anything having to do with electromagnetics). "If a society develops..." doesn't justify "therefore they can."
$endgroup$
– JBH
50 mins ago
$begingroup$
X-rays are on the same overall spectrum as visible light, which along with infrared - If they can feel the warmth of the sun, vs when they are in the cool of a shade, then they have a sensory foundation to begin exploring that field of science. Electromagnetic sciences can be discovered through sound: When magnets collide they make a sound - Why does that thing make a sound and make stuff move? ... SCIENCE! > An excuse to explore, learn, and experiment.
$endgroup$
– TheLuckless
46 mins ago
$begingroup$
You're looking at this from the perspective of a sighted person. What they can feel is heat, such as heat from a volcano or a hot spring, which they can experience and understand. It's a massive leap from that to, "there must be a sun!" which they cannot experience and cannot understand.
$endgroup$
– JBH
42 mins ago
$begingroup$
For the fun of the discussion, let me walk you through something. A blind person's first experience with lightning-generated fire. They know nothing about lightning, all they know is something went "boom!" They know nothing about fire, all they know is they got burned when they got too close. They can't see the destructive force of fire, but they could touch/taste the charcoal remains. How do they get from this to rubbing two sticks together? It's not obvious at all that they ever could. And you need to do that long before space travel.
$endgroup$
– JBH
38 mins ago
$begingroup$
Find fire in nature? - Well, you can Hear it, and FEEL the heat from it. You can feel it burning if you get too close to it. You can (hopefully quickly) learn about the damaging effects it has if you get too close to it. You can learn hot things can cause fire, and in turn figure out "Things that makes stuff hot"... > Continue train of thought to SCIENCE! and progression.
$endgroup$
– TheLuckless
31 mins ago
|
show 3 more comments
$begingroup$
"We need to see things in order to accomplish even the simplest task." is quickly debunked by even the briefest consideration of lives of blind scientists here on earth.
Human's lack of natural ability to see x-rays has not diminished our capacity to detect, measure, utilize, and interact with x-rays.
If a society develops to the point of being able to produce electronics and radio technology, then they will have little trouble "discovering" the stars. If they cannot 'see' something naturally, then they will be able to build tools and systems to translate emissions into a data-stream that they can interact with. Exactly the same as humans have done.
Can't see something in nature? Observe its effects as it interacts with something else that you can detect, and use that property to study the phenomenon.
Can't see x-rays? Observe how they cause some materials for fluoresce when struck with x-rays, and use that to explore, study, and refine how you can interact with them.
Can't see anything? Observe how light interacts with specific electronics, and develop a photo-diode or similar to construct tones or vibrations that you can observe, and build that into greater and more refined sensing technology.
You may wish to consider the fact that earth has blind astronomers. There is far more to space related research than being able to see it with your own eyes.
$endgroup$
"We need to see things in order to accomplish even the simplest task." is quickly debunked by even the briefest consideration of lives of blind scientists here on earth.
Human's lack of natural ability to see x-rays has not diminished our capacity to detect, measure, utilize, and interact with x-rays.
If a society develops to the point of being able to produce electronics and radio technology, then they will have little trouble "discovering" the stars. If they cannot 'see' something naturally, then they will be able to build tools and systems to translate emissions into a data-stream that they can interact with. Exactly the same as humans have done.
Can't see something in nature? Observe its effects as it interacts with something else that you can detect, and use that property to study the phenomenon.
Can't see x-rays? Observe how they cause some materials for fluoresce when struck with x-rays, and use that to explore, study, and refine how you can interact with them.
Can't see anything? Observe how light interacts with specific electronics, and develop a photo-diode or similar to construct tones or vibrations that you can observe, and build that into greater and more refined sensing technology.
You may wish to consider the fact that earth has blind astronomers. There is far more to space related research than being able to see it with your own eyes.
edited 6 hours ago
answered 6 hours ago
TheLucklessTheLuckless
88417
88417
$begingroup$
Hmmm... our ability to detect and manipulate X-rays came from our investigation of light which came as a result of sight. Can you justify how X-rays can be detected without sight? This sounds like illogical logic. I'm not entirely convinced a sightless person, regardless what other senses they have, can develop electronics (or anything having to do with electromagnetics). "If a society develops..." doesn't justify "therefore they can."
$endgroup$
– JBH
50 mins ago
$begingroup$
X-rays are on the same overall spectrum as visible light, which along with infrared - If they can feel the warmth of the sun, vs when they are in the cool of a shade, then they have a sensory foundation to begin exploring that field of science. Electromagnetic sciences can be discovered through sound: When magnets collide they make a sound - Why does that thing make a sound and make stuff move? ... SCIENCE! > An excuse to explore, learn, and experiment.
$endgroup$
– TheLuckless
46 mins ago
$begingroup$
You're looking at this from the perspective of a sighted person. What they can feel is heat, such as heat from a volcano or a hot spring, which they can experience and understand. It's a massive leap from that to, "there must be a sun!" which they cannot experience and cannot understand.
$endgroup$
– JBH
42 mins ago
$begingroup$
For the fun of the discussion, let me walk you through something. A blind person's first experience with lightning-generated fire. They know nothing about lightning, all they know is something went "boom!" They know nothing about fire, all they know is they got burned when they got too close. They can't see the destructive force of fire, but they could touch/taste the charcoal remains. How do they get from this to rubbing two sticks together? It's not obvious at all that they ever could. And you need to do that long before space travel.
$endgroup$
– JBH
38 mins ago
$begingroup$
Find fire in nature? - Well, you can Hear it, and FEEL the heat from it. You can feel it burning if you get too close to it. You can (hopefully quickly) learn about the damaging effects it has if you get too close to it. You can learn hot things can cause fire, and in turn figure out "Things that makes stuff hot"... > Continue train of thought to SCIENCE! and progression.
$endgroup$
– TheLuckless
31 mins ago
|
show 3 more comments
$begingroup$
Hmmm... our ability to detect and manipulate X-rays came from our investigation of light which came as a result of sight. Can you justify how X-rays can be detected without sight? This sounds like illogical logic. I'm not entirely convinced a sightless person, regardless what other senses they have, can develop electronics (or anything having to do with electromagnetics). "If a society develops..." doesn't justify "therefore they can."
$endgroup$
– JBH
50 mins ago
$begingroup$
X-rays are on the same overall spectrum as visible light, which along with infrared - If they can feel the warmth of the sun, vs when they are in the cool of a shade, then they have a sensory foundation to begin exploring that field of science. Electromagnetic sciences can be discovered through sound: When magnets collide they make a sound - Why does that thing make a sound and make stuff move? ... SCIENCE! > An excuse to explore, learn, and experiment.
$endgroup$
– TheLuckless
46 mins ago
$begingroup$
You're looking at this from the perspective of a sighted person. What they can feel is heat, such as heat from a volcano or a hot spring, which they can experience and understand. It's a massive leap from that to, "there must be a sun!" which they cannot experience and cannot understand.
$endgroup$
– JBH
42 mins ago
$begingroup$
For the fun of the discussion, let me walk you through something. A blind person's first experience with lightning-generated fire. They know nothing about lightning, all they know is something went "boom!" They know nothing about fire, all they know is they got burned when they got too close. They can't see the destructive force of fire, but they could touch/taste the charcoal remains. How do they get from this to rubbing two sticks together? It's not obvious at all that they ever could. And you need to do that long before space travel.
$endgroup$
– JBH
38 mins ago
$begingroup$
Find fire in nature? - Well, you can Hear it, and FEEL the heat from it. You can feel it burning if you get too close to it. You can (hopefully quickly) learn about the damaging effects it has if you get too close to it. You can learn hot things can cause fire, and in turn figure out "Things that makes stuff hot"... > Continue train of thought to SCIENCE! and progression.
$endgroup$
– TheLuckless
31 mins ago
$begingroup$
Hmmm... our ability to detect and manipulate X-rays came from our investigation of light which came as a result of sight. Can you justify how X-rays can be detected without sight? This sounds like illogical logic. I'm not entirely convinced a sightless person, regardless what other senses they have, can develop electronics (or anything having to do with electromagnetics). "If a society develops..." doesn't justify "therefore they can."
$endgroup$
– JBH
50 mins ago
$begingroup$
Hmmm... our ability to detect and manipulate X-rays came from our investigation of light which came as a result of sight. Can you justify how X-rays can be detected without sight? This sounds like illogical logic. I'm not entirely convinced a sightless person, regardless what other senses they have, can develop electronics (or anything having to do with electromagnetics). "If a society develops..." doesn't justify "therefore they can."
$endgroup$
– JBH
50 mins ago
$begingroup$
X-rays are on the same overall spectrum as visible light, which along with infrared - If they can feel the warmth of the sun, vs when they are in the cool of a shade, then they have a sensory foundation to begin exploring that field of science. Electromagnetic sciences can be discovered through sound: When magnets collide they make a sound - Why does that thing make a sound and make stuff move? ... SCIENCE! > An excuse to explore, learn, and experiment.
$endgroup$
– TheLuckless
46 mins ago
$begingroup$
X-rays are on the same overall spectrum as visible light, which along with infrared - If they can feel the warmth of the sun, vs when they are in the cool of a shade, then they have a sensory foundation to begin exploring that field of science. Electromagnetic sciences can be discovered through sound: When magnets collide they make a sound - Why does that thing make a sound and make stuff move? ... SCIENCE! > An excuse to explore, learn, and experiment.
$endgroup$
– TheLuckless
46 mins ago
$begingroup$
You're looking at this from the perspective of a sighted person. What they can feel is heat, such as heat from a volcano or a hot spring, which they can experience and understand. It's a massive leap from that to, "there must be a sun!" which they cannot experience and cannot understand.
$endgroup$
– JBH
42 mins ago
$begingroup$
You're looking at this from the perspective of a sighted person. What they can feel is heat, such as heat from a volcano or a hot spring, which they can experience and understand. It's a massive leap from that to, "there must be a sun!" which they cannot experience and cannot understand.
$endgroup$
– JBH
42 mins ago
$begingroup$
For the fun of the discussion, let me walk you through something. A blind person's first experience with lightning-generated fire. They know nothing about lightning, all they know is something went "boom!" They know nothing about fire, all they know is they got burned when they got too close. They can't see the destructive force of fire, but they could touch/taste the charcoal remains. How do they get from this to rubbing two sticks together? It's not obvious at all that they ever could. And you need to do that long before space travel.
$endgroup$
– JBH
38 mins ago
$begingroup$
For the fun of the discussion, let me walk you through something. A blind person's first experience with lightning-generated fire. They know nothing about lightning, all they know is something went "boom!" They know nothing about fire, all they know is they got burned when they got too close. They can't see the destructive force of fire, but they could touch/taste the charcoal remains. How do they get from this to rubbing two sticks together? It's not obvious at all that they ever could. And you need to do that long before space travel.
$endgroup$
– JBH
38 mins ago
$begingroup$
Find fire in nature? - Well, you can Hear it, and FEEL the heat from it. You can feel it burning if you get too close to it. You can (hopefully quickly) learn about the damaging effects it has if you get too close to it. You can learn hot things can cause fire, and in turn figure out "Things that makes stuff hot"... > Continue train of thought to SCIENCE! and progression.
$endgroup$
– TheLuckless
31 mins ago
$begingroup$
Find fire in nature? - Well, you can Hear it, and FEEL the heat from it. You can feel it burning if you get too close to it. You can (hopefully quickly) learn about the damaging effects it has if you get too close to it. You can learn hot things can cause fire, and in turn figure out "Things that makes stuff hot"... > Continue train of thought to SCIENCE! and progression.
$endgroup$
– TheLuckless
31 mins ago
|
show 3 more comments
$begingroup$
I think your aliens would be better adapted to space exploration than humans are.
Echo location is a spatial sense. It gives you directions and distances and via Doppler shift changes in distances. A species with a sense like that would be able to understand something like the solar system much better than a species that relies on a planar sense tricked up to boost hand eye coordination so that you do not fall out of a tree.
It also maps directly into radar which works with exact same principles and has exact same limitations and advantages. Except it works in space. And radar is a human version so it needs a conversion to something us poor humans can understand. Your aliens would do much better since they would understand all the data about spatial data and movement directly.
You'd need an "echo display" that gives the proper audio response based on computer data and the sounds it receives but apart from being larger and lower resolution that visual analogues it is not that complex.
Generally changing vision to echo location loses things useless for space exploration such as ability to see detail and color and gives useful things such as better spatial sense and sense of motion.
And they also have a superior magnetic field sense. They could sense the planetary magnetic field, large ferrous objects moving in it, the direction the solar wind is coming from. They'd probably know where the sun is even at night.
In space they'd probably feel the solar magnetic field. Certainly the ship could have systems to allow them to do so. And to feel the movement of the ship and even the movements of the planets. Or other ships. And then there is the glorious stuff elemtilas talks about.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Excellent response! But I have a question: how does this species know there's anything Out There to begin with? Echolocation only works in a medium (like water or air) --- it's sound waves.
$endgroup$
– elemtilas
14 mins ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
I think your aliens would be better adapted to space exploration than humans are.
Echo location is a spatial sense. It gives you directions and distances and via Doppler shift changes in distances. A species with a sense like that would be able to understand something like the solar system much better than a species that relies on a planar sense tricked up to boost hand eye coordination so that you do not fall out of a tree.
It also maps directly into radar which works with exact same principles and has exact same limitations and advantages. Except it works in space. And radar is a human version so it needs a conversion to something us poor humans can understand. Your aliens would do much better since they would understand all the data about spatial data and movement directly.
You'd need an "echo display" that gives the proper audio response based on computer data and the sounds it receives but apart from being larger and lower resolution that visual analogues it is not that complex.
Generally changing vision to echo location loses things useless for space exploration such as ability to see detail and color and gives useful things such as better spatial sense and sense of motion.
And they also have a superior magnetic field sense. They could sense the planetary magnetic field, large ferrous objects moving in it, the direction the solar wind is coming from. They'd probably know where the sun is even at night.
In space they'd probably feel the solar magnetic field. Certainly the ship could have systems to allow them to do so. And to feel the movement of the ship and even the movements of the planets. Or other ships. And then there is the glorious stuff elemtilas talks about.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Excellent response! But I have a question: how does this species know there's anything Out There to begin with? Echolocation only works in a medium (like water or air) --- it's sound waves.
$endgroup$
– elemtilas
14 mins ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
I think your aliens would be better adapted to space exploration than humans are.
Echo location is a spatial sense. It gives you directions and distances and via Doppler shift changes in distances. A species with a sense like that would be able to understand something like the solar system much better than a species that relies on a planar sense tricked up to boost hand eye coordination so that you do not fall out of a tree.
It also maps directly into radar which works with exact same principles and has exact same limitations and advantages. Except it works in space. And radar is a human version so it needs a conversion to something us poor humans can understand. Your aliens would do much better since they would understand all the data about spatial data and movement directly.
You'd need an "echo display" that gives the proper audio response based on computer data and the sounds it receives but apart from being larger and lower resolution that visual analogues it is not that complex.
Generally changing vision to echo location loses things useless for space exploration such as ability to see detail and color and gives useful things such as better spatial sense and sense of motion.
And they also have a superior magnetic field sense. They could sense the planetary magnetic field, large ferrous objects moving in it, the direction the solar wind is coming from. They'd probably know where the sun is even at night.
In space they'd probably feel the solar magnetic field. Certainly the ship could have systems to allow them to do so. And to feel the movement of the ship and even the movements of the planets. Or other ships. And then there is the glorious stuff elemtilas talks about.
$endgroup$
I think your aliens would be better adapted to space exploration than humans are.
Echo location is a spatial sense. It gives you directions and distances and via Doppler shift changes in distances. A species with a sense like that would be able to understand something like the solar system much better than a species that relies on a planar sense tricked up to boost hand eye coordination so that you do not fall out of a tree.
It also maps directly into radar which works with exact same principles and has exact same limitations and advantages. Except it works in space. And radar is a human version so it needs a conversion to something us poor humans can understand. Your aliens would do much better since they would understand all the data about spatial data and movement directly.
You'd need an "echo display" that gives the proper audio response based on computer data and the sounds it receives but apart from being larger and lower resolution that visual analogues it is not that complex.
Generally changing vision to echo location loses things useless for space exploration such as ability to see detail and color and gives useful things such as better spatial sense and sense of motion.
And they also have a superior magnetic field sense. They could sense the planetary magnetic field, large ferrous objects moving in it, the direction the solar wind is coming from. They'd probably know where the sun is even at night.
In space they'd probably feel the solar magnetic field. Certainly the ship could have systems to allow them to do so. And to feel the movement of the ship and even the movements of the planets. Or other ships. And then there is the glorious stuff elemtilas talks about.
answered 5 hours ago
Ville NiemiVille Niemi
35.2k260120
35.2k260120
$begingroup$
Excellent response! But I have a question: how does this species know there's anything Out There to begin with? Echolocation only works in a medium (like water or air) --- it's sound waves.
$endgroup$
– elemtilas
14 mins ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Excellent response! But I have a question: how does this species know there's anything Out There to begin with? Echolocation only works in a medium (like water or air) --- it's sound waves.
$endgroup$
– elemtilas
14 mins ago
$begingroup$
Excellent response! But I have a question: how does this species know there's anything Out There to begin with? Echolocation only works in a medium (like water or air) --- it's sound waves.
$endgroup$
– elemtilas
14 mins ago
$begingroup$
Excellent response! But I have a question: how does this species know there's anything Out There to begin with? Echolocation only works in a medium (like water or air) --- it's sound waves.
$endgroup$
– elemtilas
14 mins ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Of Course!
That is, assuming these people have the intelligence, resources, sciences, temperament, desire, technological advancements, etc., etc.
If you can see this in the sky:
And something like this orbits your planet:
Then you're more than equipped to get out and take a good look at this:
All of those things should be "visible" to a species who can see magnetic fields the way we see light.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
"Magneto-reception, like birds on Earth" is not the ability to see magnetic fields.
$endgroup$
– JBH
49 mins ago
$begingroup$
@JBH Indeed --- but it's also "hundreds of times" better than what birds can do!
$endgroup$
– elemtilas
37 mins ago
$begingroup$
Birds don't see magnetic lines. They merely sense it - like our sensing the passing of wind over our fingertips. I rarely downvote one of your answers, but this one I must. This isn't representing what the OP described.
$endgroup$
– JBH
34 mins ago
$begingroup$
@JBH --- As I said! It's "hundreds of times" better! The OP doesn't specify the actual nature & limitations of the sense in question, so I am presenting a possibility that will get the job done. I mean, birds' senses are pretty damn cool as they are. Keep in mind that our eyes evolved from a sensory patches that could basically detect light or dark. And now we can see colours and shapes and hues and detect movement and judge distances and all kinds of things with our eyes! If a species evolves from an ancestral form that can sense magnetic fields but is now hundreds of times more efficient...
$endgroup$
– elemtilas
18 mins ago
$begingroup$
I see no reason not to postulate a sense that can "visualise" magnetic fields, and thus take in a broader spectrum of data. Obviously, I don't (and can't!) complain about the down vote --- I'm just happy you explained your rationale!
$endgroup$
– elemtilas
17 mins ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Of Course!
That is, assuming these people have the intelligence, resources, sciences, temperament, desire, technological advancements, etc., etc.
If you can see this in the sky:
And something like this orbits your planet:
Then you're more than equipped to get out and take a good look at this:
All of those things should be "visible" to a species who can see magnetic fields the way we see light.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
"Magneto-reception, like birds on Earth" is not the ability to see magnetic fields.
$endgroup$
– JBH
49 mins ago
$begingroup$
@JBH Indeed --- but it's also "hundreds of times" better than what birds can do!
$endgroup$
– elemtilas
37 mins ago
$begingroup$
Birds don't see magnetic lines. They merely sense it - like our sensing the passing of wind over our fingertips. I rarely downvote one of your answers, but this one I must. This isn't representing what the OP described.
$endgroup$
– JBH
34 mins ago
$begingroup$
@JBH --- As I said! It's "hundreds of times" better! The OP doesn't specify the actual nature & limitations of the sense in question, so I am presenting a possibility that will get the job done. I mean, birds' senses are pretty damn cool as they are. Keep in mind that our eyes evolved from a sensory patches that could basically detect light or dark. And now we can see colours and shapes and hues and detect movement and judge distances and all kinds of things with our eyes! If a species evolves from an ancestral form that can sense magnetic fields but is now hundreds of times more efficient...
$endgroup$
– elemtilas
18 mins ago
$begingroup$
I see no reason not to postulate a sense that can "visualise" magnetic fields, and thus take in a broader spectrum of data. Obviously, I don't (and can't!) complain about the down vote --- I'm just happy you explained your rationale!
$endgroup$
– elemtilas
17 mins ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Of Course!
That is, assuming these people have the intelligence, resources, sciences, temperament, desire, technological advancements, etc., etc.
If you can see this in the sky:
And something like this orbits your planet:
Then you're more than equipped to get out and take a good look at this:
All of those things should be "visible" to a species who can see magnetic fields the way we see light.
$endgroup$
Of Course!
That is, assuming these people have the intelligence, resources, sciences, temperament, desire, technological advancements, etc., etc.
If you can see this in the sky:
And something like this orbits your planet:
Then you're more than equipped to get out and take a good look at this:
All of those things should be "visible" to a species who can see magnetic fields the way we see light.
answered 6 hours ago
elemtilaselemtilas
14.9k23264
14.9k23264
$begingroup$
"Magneto-reception, like birds on Earth" is not the ability to see magnetic fields.
$endgroup$
– JBH
49 mins ago
$begingroup$
@JBH Indeed --- but it's also "hundreds of times" better than what birds can do!
$endgroup$
– elemtilas
37 mins ago
$begingroup$
Birds don't see magnetic lines. They merely sense it - like our sensing the passing of wind over our fingertips. I rarely downvote one of your answers, but this one I must. This isn't representing what the OP described.
$endgroup$
– JBH
34 mins ago
$begingroup$
@JBH --- As I said! It's "hundreds of times" better! The OP doesn't specify the actual nature & limitations of the sense in question, so I am presenting a possibility that will get the job done. I mean, birds' senses are pretty damn cool as they are. Keep in mind that our eyes evolved from a sensory patches that could basically detect light or dark. And now we can see colours and shapes and hues and detect movement and judge distances and all kinds of things with our eyes! If a species evolves from an ancestral form that can sense magnetic fields but is now hundreds of times more efficient...
$endgroup$
– elemtilas
18 mins ago
$begingroup$
I see no reason not to postulate a sense that can "visualise" magnetic fields, and thus take in a broader spectrum of data. Obviously, I don't (and can't!) complain about the down vote --- I'm just happy you explained your rationale!
$endgroup$
– elemtilas
17 mins ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
"Magneto-reception, like birds on Earth" is not the ability to see magnetic fields.
$endgroup$
– JBH
49 mins ago
$begingroup$
@JBH Indeed --- but it's also "hundreds of times" better than what birds can do!
$endgroup$
– elemtilas
37 mins ago
$begingroup$
Birds don't see magnetic lines. They merely sense it - like our sensing the passing of wind over our fingertips. I rarely downvote one of your answers, but this one I must. This isn't representing what the OP described.
$endgroup$
– JBH
34 mins ago
$begingroup$
@JBH --- As I said! It's "hundreds of times" better! The OP doesn't specify the actual nature & limitations of the sense in question, so I am presenting a possibility that will get the job done. I mean, birds' senses are pretty damn cool as they are. Keep in mind that our eyes evolved from a sensory patches that could basically detect light or dark. And now we can see colours and shapes and hues and detect movement and judge distances and all kinds of things with our eyes! If a species evolves from an ancestral form that can sense magnetic fields but is now hundreds of times more efficient...
$endgroup$
– elemtilas
18 mins ago
$begingroup$
I see no reason not to postulate a sense that can "visualise" magnetic fields, and thus take in a broader spectrum of data. Obviously, I don't (and can't!) complain about the down vote --- I'm just happy you explained your rationale!
$endgroup$
– elemtilas
17 mins ago
$begingroup$
"Magneto-reception, like birds on Earth" is not the ability to see magnetic fields.
$endgroup$
– JBH
49 mins ago
$begingroup$
"Magneto-reception, like birds on Earth" is not the ability to see magnetic fields.
$endgroup$
– JBH
49 mins ago
$begingroup$
@JBH Indeed --- but it's also "hundreds of times" better than what birds can do!
$endgroup$
– elemtilas
37 mins ago
$begingroup$
@JBH Indeed --- but it's also "hundreds of times" better than what birds can do!
$endgroup$
– elemtilas
37 mins ago
$begingroup$
Birds don't see magnetic lines. They merely sense it - like our sensing the passing of wind over our fingertips. I rarely downvote one of your answers, but this one I must. This isn't representing what the OP described.
$endgroup$
– JBH
34 mins ago
$begingroup$
Birds don't see magnetic lines. They merely sense it - like our sensing the passing of wind over our fingertips. I rarely downvote one of your answers, but this one I must. This isn't representing what the OP described.
$endgroup$
– JBH
34 mins ago
$begingroup$
@JBH --- As I said! It's "hundreds of times" better! The OP doesn't specify the actual nature & limitations of the sense in question, so I am presenting a possibility that will get the job done. I mean, birds' senses are pretty damn cool as they are. Keep in mind that our eyes evolved from a sensory patches that could basically detect light or dark. And now we can see colours and shapes and hues and detect movement and judge distances and all kinds of things with our eyes! If a species evolves from an ancestral form that can sense magnetic fields but is now hundreds of times more efficient...
$endgroup$
– elemtilas
18 mins ago
$begingroup$
@JBH --- As I said! It's "hundreds of times" better! The OP doesn't specify the actual nature & limitations of the sense in question, so I am presenting a possibility that will get the job done. I mean, birds' senses are pretty damn cool as they are. Keep in mind that our eyes evolved from a sensory patches that could basically detect light or dark. And now we can see colours and shapes and hues and detect movement and judge distances and all kinds of things with our eyes! If a species evolves from an ancestral form that can sense magnetic fields but is now hundreds of times more efficient...
$endgroup$
– elemtilas
18 mins ago
$begingroup$
I see no reason not to postulate a sense that can "visualise" magnetic fields, and thus take in a broader spectrum of data. Obviously, I don't (and can't!) complain about the down vote --- I'm just happy you explained your rationale!
$endgroup$
– elemtilas
17 mins ago
$begingroup$
I see no reason not to postulate a sense that can "visualise" magnetic fields, and thus take in a broader spectrum of data. Obviously, I don't (and can't!) complain about the down vote --- I'm just happy you explained your rationale!
$endgroup$
– elemtilas
17 mins ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
I think my answer is: Yes.
Given only echo location it is not possible to discern anything in space or to orient oneself in space. However, to develop space travel, I suppose these aliens would require a high level of technological sophistication anyway. Otherwise some bat would just fly in the direction of "up" and suffocate. Word might get around that this is a bad idea.
If they first develop machinery to enhance their abilities sufficiently they might also realize that space is not just infinite emptiness.
New contributor
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
A bat flying up will run short of breath progressively in the same way as a climber would. (Or a pilot, for that matter.) Mammals have many more senses than just the five though, and sensing which way is "down" is one of them. Of course ours can be fooled by centripetal force, but flying animals are likely better at that.
$endgroup$
– Graham
1 hour ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
I think my answer is: Yes.
Given only echo location it is not possible to discern anything in space or to orient oneself in space. However, to develop space travel, I suppose these aliens would require a high level of technological sophistication anyway. Otherwise some bat would just fly in the direction of "up" and suffocate. Word might get around that this is a bad idea.
If they first develop machinery to enhance their abilities sufficiently they might also realize that space is not just infinite emptiness.
New contributor
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
A bat flying up will run short of breath progressively in the same way as a climber would. (Or a pilot, for that matter.) Mammals have many more senses than just the five though, and sensing which way is "down" is one of them. Of course ours can be fooled by centripetal force, but flying animals are likely better at that.
$endgroup$
– Graham
1 hour ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
I think my answer is: Yes.
Given only echo location it is not possible to discern anything in space or to orient oneself in space. However, to develop space travel, I suppose these aliens would require a high level of technological sophistication anyway. Otherwise some bat would just fly in the direction of "up" and suffocate. Word might get around that this is a bad idea.
If they first develop machinery to enhance their abilities sufficiently they might also realize that space is not just infinite emptiness.
New contributor
$endgroup$
I think my answer is: Yes.
Given only echo location it is not possible to discern anything in space or to orient oneself in space. However, to develop space travel, I suppose these aliens would require a high level of technological sophistication anyway. Otherwise some bat would just fly in the direction of "up" and suffocate. Word might get around that this is a bad idea.
If they first develop machinery to enhance their abilities sufficiently they might also realize that space is not just infinite emptiness.
New contributor
New contributor
answered 9 hours ago
genesisgenesis
3715
3715
New contributor
New contributor
$begingroup$
A bat flying up will run short of breath progressively in the same way as a climber would. (Or a pilot, for that matter.) Mammals have many more senses than just the five though, and sensing which way is "down" is one of them. Of course ours can be fooled by centripetal force, but flying animals are likely better at that.
$endgroup$
– Graham
1 hour ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
A bat flying up will run short of breath progressively in the same way as a climber would. (Or a pilot, for that matter.) Mammals have many more senses than just the five though, and sensing which way is "down" is one of them. Of course ours can be fooled by centripetal force, but flying animals are likely better at that.
$endgroup$
– Graham
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
A bat flying up will run short of breath progressively in the same way as a climber would. (Or a pilot, for that matter.) Mammals have many more senses than just the five though, and sensing which way is "down" is one of them. Of course ours can be fooled by centripetal force, but flying animals are likely better at that.
$endgroup$
– Graham
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
A bat flying up will run short of breath progressively in the same way as a climber would. (Or a pilot, for that matter.) Mammals have many more senses than just the five though, and sensing which way is "down" is one of them. Of course ours can be fooled by centripetal force, but flying animals are likely better at that.
$endgroup$
– Graham
1 hour ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
A possible riff off of an echolocation like solution would be to release hundreds of small disposable probes that explode on impact with anything. Then light sensors the aliens have built could read the incoming data, and map out what is around them as a data point in 3D space. They would possibly be able to visualize any object based on their ability to memorize the coordinates reported by their machine, or have the machine create a model in UV or sound that they could "see" or understand. It's kind of like how a cats whiskers provide acute and specific sensory feed back from a specific point which allows the cat to make adjustments to their location with high precision almost instinctively.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
A possible riff off of an echolocation like solution would be to release hundreds of small disposable probes that explode on impact with anything. Then light sensors the aliens have built could read the incoming data, and map out what is around them as a data point in 3D space. They would possibly be able to visualize any object based on their ability to memorize the coordinates reported by their machine, or have the machine create a model in UV or sound that they could "see" or understand. It's kind of like how a cats whiskers provide acute and specific sensory feed back from a specific point which allows the cat to make adjustments to their location with high precision almost instinctively.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
A possible riff off of an echolocation like solution would be to release hundreds of small disposable probes that explode on impact with anything. Then light sensors the aliens have built could read the incoming data, and map out what is around them as a data point in 3D space. They would possibly be able to visualize any object based on their ability to memorize the coordinates reported by their machine, or have the machine create a model in UV or sound that they could "see" or understand. It's kind of like how a cats whiskers provide acute and specific sensory feed back from a specific point which allows the cat to make adjustments to their location with high precision almost instinctively.
$endgroup$
A possible riff off of an echolocation like solution would be to release hundreds of small disposable probes that explode on impact with anything. Then light sensors the aliens have built could read the incoming data, and map out what is around them as a data point in 3D space. They would possibly be able to visualize any object based on their ability to memorize the coordinates reported by their machine, or have the machine create a model in UV or sound that they could "see" or understand. It's kind of like how a cats whiskers provide acute and specific sensory feed back from a specific point which allows the cat to make adjustments to their location with high precision almost instinctively.
answered 7 hours ago
AlexAlex
414
414
add a comment |
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Yes, measuring instruments are more important than senses... and you can have glasses for light polarization
I think the crucial aspect of your alien species is whether or not they are able to build complex measuring instruments and transmit knowledge.
A very important difference between Aristotle and Galileo was that the emphasis the latter put on measurement (rather than their intelligence or available senses). At the time, European manufacture was advanced enough to build the instruments that he and others would require to build up their calculations, and later develop the theories that formed the core of mechanics.
The history of space travel would be very different for your species, depending on the way they are able to perceive gravitation, velocity, mass, etc. For example, the early optical telescope would be useless to them but they would have the capacity to notice the effect of the orbit of the moon in the Earth's magnetic field.
From this humble beginnings, they could develop a different type of orbital mechanics perhaps slower, perhaps faster than humans did. Unfortunately we know very little about magnetoreception to describe a mechanism in detail, but we do know in some materials "magnetic fields can change the way the charged particles (mainly electrons) respond to the light electromagnetic field". On one side, some phenomena that remained a mistery to humans for millions of years would be a part of everyday life for your aliens...
On the other side, with enough tools and technology, your aliens could build themselves some device to perceive light talking advantage of the polarization of light in a similar way in which we have built a ton of things to measure magnetic fields.
PD I don't think sound is relevant for space travel because it doesn't travel in a vacuum.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Yes, measuring instruments are more important than senses... and you can have glasses for light polarization
I think the crucial aspect of your alien species is whether or not they are able to build complex measuring instruments and transmit knowledge.
A very important difference between Aristotle and Galileo was that the emphasis the latter put on measurement (rather than their intelligence or available senses). At the time, European manufacture was advanced enough to build the instruments that he and others would require to build up their calculations, and later develop the theories that formed the core of mechanics.
The history of space travel would be very different for your species, depending on the way they are able to perceive gravitation, velocity, mass, etc. For example, the early optical telescope would be useless to them but they would have the capacity to notice the effect of the orbit of the moon in the Earth's magnetic field.
From this humble beginnings, they could develop a different type of orbital mechanics perhaps slower, perhaps faster than humans did. Unfortunately we know very little about magnetoreception to describe a mechanism in detail, but we do know in some materials "magnetic fields can change the way the charged particles (mainly electrons) respond to the light electromagnetic field". On one side, some phenomena that remained a mistery to humans for millions of years would be a part of everyday life for your aliens...
On the other side, with enough tools and technology, your aliens could build themselves some device to perceive light talking advantage of the polarization of light in a similar way in which we have built a ton of things to measure magnetic fields.
PD I don't think sound is relevant for space travel because it doesn't travel in a vacuum.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Yes, measuring instruments are more important than senses... and you can have glasses for light polarization
I think the crucial aspect of your alien species is whether or not they are able to build complex measuring instruments and transmit knowledge.
A very important difference between Aristotle and Galileo was that the emphasis the latter put on measurement (rather than their intelligence or available senses). At the time, European manufacture was advanced enough to build the instruments that he and others would require to build up their calculations, and later develop the theories that formed the core of mechanics.
The history of space travel would be very different for your species, depending on the way they are able to perceive gravitation, velocity, mass, etc. For example, the early optical telescope would be useless to them but they would have the capacity to notice the effect of the orbit of the moon in the Earth's magnetic field.
From this humble beginnings, they could develop a different type of orbital mechanics perhaps slower, perhaps faster than humans did. Unfortunately we know very little about magnetoreception to describe a mechanism in detail, but we do know in some materials "magnetic fields can change the way the charged particles (mainly electrons) respond to the light electromagnetic field". On one side, some phenomena that remained a mistery to humans for millions of years would be a part of everyday life for your aliens...
On the other side, with enough tools and technology, your aliens could build themselves some device to perceive light talking advantage of the polarization of light in a similar way in which we have built a ton of things to measure magnetic fields.
PD I don't think sound is relevant for space travel because it doesn't travel in a vacuum.
$endgroup$
Yes, measuring instruments are more important than senses... and you can have glasses for light polarization
I think the crucial aspect of your alien species is whether or not they are able to build complex measuring instruments and transmit knowledge.
A very important difference between Aristotle and Galileo was that the emphasis the latter put on measurement (rather than their intelligence or available senses). At the time, European manufacture was advanced enough to build the instruments that he and others would require to build up their calculations, and later develop the theories that formed the core of mechanics.
The history of space travel would be very different for your species, depending on the way they are able to perceive gravitation, velocity, mass, etc. For example, the early optical telescope would be useless to them but they would have the capacity to notice the effect of the orbit of the moon in the Earth's magnetic field.
From this humble beginnings, they could develop a different type of orbital mechanics perhaps slower, perhaps faster than humans did. Unfortunately we know very little about magnetoreception to describe a mechanism in detail, but we do know in some materials "magnetic fields can change the way the charged particles (mainly electrons) respond to the light electromagnetic field". On one side, some phenomena that remained a mistery to humans for millions of years would be a part of everyday life for your aliens...
On the other side, with enough tools and technology, your aliens could build themselves some device to perceive light talking advantage of the polarization of light in a similar way in which we have built a ton of things to measure magnetic fields.
PD I don't think sound is relevant for space travel because it doesn't travel in a vacuum.
edited 2 hours ago
answered 3 hours ago
Chuck RamirezChuck Ramirez
3427
3427
add a comment |
add a comment |
$begingroup$
It's well within the realm of possibilities. Vision is only necessary for us to because it is what we know. If your alien race's dominant senses are as effective for them, as sight is for us, then they could, quite possibly "sense" the nature of the cosmos in their own way.
As humans, our technology has allowed us to overcome our physical limitations over and over again. If your aliens are intelligent enough to create sophisticated technology. And it evolves similar to ours, then (I would think) lack of sight should be an easy hurdle to jump.
New contributor
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
It's well within the realm of possibilities. Vision is only necessary for us to because it is what we know. If your alien race's dominant senses are as effective for them, as sight is for us, then they could, quite possibly "sense" the nature of the cosmos in their own way.
As humans, our technology has allowed us to overcome our physical limitations over and over again. If your aliens are intelligent enough to create sophisticated technology. And it evolves similar to ours, then (I would think) lack of sight should be an easy hurdle to jump.
New contributor
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add a comment |
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It's well within the realm of possibilities. Vision is only necessary for us to because it is what we know. If your alien race's dominant senses are as effective for them, as sight is for us, then they could, quite possibly "sense" the nature of the cosmos in their own way.
As humans, our technology has allowed us to overcome our physical limitations over and over again. If your aliens are intelligent enough to create sophisticated technology. And it evolves similar to ours, then (I would think) lack of sight should be an easy hurdle to jump.
New contributor
$endgroup$
It's well within the realm of possibilities. Vision is only necessary for us to because it is what we know. If your alien race's dominant senses are as effective for them, as sight is for us, then they could, quite possibly "sense" the nature of the cosmos in their own way.
As humans, our technology has allowed us to overcome our physical limitations over and over again. If your aliens are intelligent enough to create sophisticated technology. And it evolves similar to ours, then (I would think) lack of sight should be an easy hurdle to jump.
New contributor
New contributor
answered 6 hours ago
matildalee23matildalee23
1465
1465
New contributor
New contributor
add a comment |
add a comment |
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But, when talking about space, sight is necessary to understand the cosmos.
Really? Or is it just necessary that they be spatially aware?
Open your mind. It will take more work on your part, but you can explain it.
We cannot see X-Rays, but we discovered them... and then figured out how to make machines/devices that represented them in a form that we could understand (see them on photographic plates). And then discovered how they could be useful.
Note that X-Ray radiation killed a lot of the early scientist studying it (via cancer) but that didn't stop them. We learned X-Rays, and then we learned new stuff, and now we have MRIs, use sound waves to measure blood flow, etc.
The sun is easy to "see" without "vision".
They would feel the warmth, even if they couldn't see it. (Or feel effects from it if you want it really far away)
It might take longer to "see" the stars and moon(s) than the sun... but eventually a sentient species of sufficient intelligence would figure it out. First they figure out it is there, then they (eventually) figure out how to get a better view (however you decide that is possible).
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add a comment |
$begingroup$
But, when talking about space, sight is necessary to understand the cosmos.
Really? Or is it just necessary that they be spatially aware?
Open your mind. It will take more work on your part, but you can explain it.
We cannot see X-Rays, but we discovered them... and then figured out how to make machines/devices that represented them in a form that we could understand (see them on photographic plates). And then discovered how they could be useful.
Note that X-Ray radiation killed a lot of the early scientist studying it (via cancer) but that didn't stop them. We learned X-Rays, and then we learned new stuff, and now we have MRIs, use sound waves to measure blood flow, etc.
The sun is easy to "see" without "vision".
They would feel the warmth, even if they couldn't see it. (Or feel effects from it if you want it really far away)
It might take longer to "see" the stars and moon(s) than the sun... but eventually a sentient species of sufficient intelligence would figure it out. First they figure out it is there, then they (eventually) figure out how to get a better view (however you decide that is possible).
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
But, when talking about space, sight is necessary to understand the cosmos.
Really? Or is it just necessary that they be spatially aware?
Open your mind. It will take more work on your part, but you can explain it.
We cannot see X-Rays, but we discovered them... and then figured out how to make machines/devices that represented them in a form that we could understand (see them on photographic plates). And then discovered how they could be useful.
Note that X-Ray radiation killed a lot of the early scientist studying it (via cancer) but that didn't stop them. We learned X-Rays, and then we learned new stuff, and now we have MRIs, use sound waves to measure blood flow, etc.
The sun is easy to "see" without "vision".
They would feel the warmth, even if they couldn't see it. (Or feel effects from it if you want it really far away)
It might take longer to "see" the stars and moon(s) than the sun... but eventually a sentient species of sufficient intelligence would figure it out. First they figure out it is there, then they (eventually) figure out how to get a better view (however you decide that is possible).
$endgroup$
But, when talking about space, sight is necessary to understand the cosmos.
Really? Or is it just necessary that they be spatially aware?
Open your mind. It will take more work on your part, but you can explain it.
We cannot see X-Rays, but we discovered them... and then figured out how to make machines/devices that represented them in a form that we could understand (see them on photographic plates). And then discovered how they could be useful.
Note that X-Ray radiation killed a lot of the early scientist studying it (via cancer) but that didn't stop them. We learned X-Rays, and then we learned new stuff, and now we have MRIs, use sound waves to measure blood flow, etc.
The sun is easy to "see" without "vision".
They would feel the warmth, even if they couldn't see it. (Or feel effects from it if you want it really far away)
It might take longer to "see" the stars and moon(s) than the sun... but eventually a sentient species of sufficient intelligence would figure it out. First they figure out it is there, then they (eventually) figure out how to get a better view (however you decide that is possible).
answered 4 hours ago
J. Chris ComptonJ. Chris Compton
30016
30016
add a comment |
add a comment |
Liam00 is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Liam00 is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Liam00 is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Liam00 is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
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1
$begingroup$
The critical invention is a "display" that will enable them to perceive and understand the output of an electromagnetic sensing device. Once they've achieved that, there's nothing to stop them using radar, lidar and everything else, and in astronomical terms they'll be no more blind than us. Their only limitations are the "resolution" of such a display, but that's a minor handicap on the grand scale of things.
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– Starfish Prime
8 hours ago
1
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Possible duplicate of Could a species develop the tech necessary to land on their own moon without comprehending light?
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– JBH
7 hours ago
1
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Note that the ultraviolet range of the spectrum covers wavelengths from 10nm to 400nm (a 390nm range), while the visible light spectrum covers wavelengths from 380nm to 740nm (a 360nm range). The upper and lower bounds of our vision covers about a two-fold change in photon energy, but for the bats, it's more like a forty-fold change in energy. Your bats have a wider color spectrum than humans!
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– Nuclear Wang
3 hours ago
1
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They might achieve it faster since they would have a pressing mystery of why it is hot during the day.
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– John
1 hour ago
1
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@JBH -- I address that in my answer. Notice also that the two questions dòn't yield the same answers. If I had answered your question, the answer would have been "hell no!" --- using only taste, smell, touch, thermosensation, pressure, and any of the twenty-some other senses humans have, we'd have no way of knowing anything beyond a warm sòmething that crosses above us. This question is different because it specifies vision-like senses that are distinct from human vision, and indeed, allows for senses humans lack.
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– elemtilas
30 mins ago