Would a grinding machine be a simple and workable propulsion system for an interplanetary spacecraft? The Next CEO of Stack OverflowCould antimatter be used for spacecraft propulsion?How much does it cost to fill an ion thuster with Xenon for a spacecraft propulsion system?Is a spherical rocket design a plausible replacement for current designs today?Pulse Rocket EngineHow does Accion System's TILE propulsion module compare to an equivalently sized Hall effect or an Ion thruster?Liquid shield for spacecraft?Could a spacecraft be propelled by a 180 degree deflection of two charged particle beams?If specific impulse is directly related to exhaust velocity, would a ion post-accelerator improve the Isp of a propulsion system?Could protons in the Sun's solar wind be used to create a photonic laser thruster for a spacecraft?Very Low Gravity Bicycle

A Man With a Stainless Steel Endoskeleton (like The Terminator) Fighting Cloaked Aliens Only He Can See

How to invert MapIndexed on a ragged structure? How to construct a tree from rules?

Would this house-rule that treats advantage as a +1 to the roll instead (and disadvantage as -1) and allows them to stack be balanced?

I want to delete every two lines after 3rd lines in file contain very large number of lines :

Is micro rebar a better way to reinforce concrete than rebar?

Make solar eclipses exceedingly rare, but still have new moons

Why did CATV standarize in 75 ohms and everyone else in 50?

Would a grinding machine be a simple and workable propulsion system for an interplanetary spacecraft?

Running a General Election and the European Elections together

RigExpert AA-35 - Interpreting The Information

How to install OpenCV on Raspbian Stretch?

How to count occurrences of text in a file?

Why do remote US companies require working in the US?

Can we say or write : "No, it'sn't"?

Is wanting to ask what to write an indication that you need to change your story?

Is it possible to replace duplicates of a character with one character using tr

INSERT to a table from a database to other (same SQL Server) using Dynamic SQL

Where does this common spurious transmission come from? Is there a quality difference?

"misplaced omit" error when >centering columns

Why don't programming languages automatically manage the synchronous/asynchronous problem?

What happened in Rome, when the western empire "fell"?

Math-accent symbol over parentheses enclosing accented symbol (amsmath)

Why is my new battery behaving weirdly?

Bartok - Syncopation (1): Meaning of notes in between Grand Staff



Would a grinding machine be a simple and workable propulsion system for an interplanetary spacecraft?



The Next CEO of Stack OverflowCould antimatter be used for spacecraft propulsion?How much does it cost to fill an ion thuster with Xenon for a spacecraft propulsion system?Is a spherical rocket design a plausible replacement for current designs today?Pulse Rocket EngineHow does Accion System's TILE propulsion module compare to an equivalently sized Hall effect or an Ion thruster?Liquid shield for spacecraft?Could a spacecraft be propelled by a 180 degree deflection of two charged particle beams?If specific impulse is directly related to exhaust velocity, would a ion post-accelerator improve the Isp of a propulsion system?Could protons in the Sun's solar wind be used to create a photonic laser thruster for a spacecraft?Very Low Gravity Bicycle










4












$begingroup$


I am wondering if any space agency has ever considered using a grinding machine as a propulsion system for an interplanetary spacecraft. This system would not be used to lift the spacecraft off of a planet's surface, but rather used solely as an interplanetary/interstellar propulsion system.



The working principle is a simple one (see picture below). This grinding machine would be located at the stern of the spacecraft. Metal shavings flying off of the grinding wheel of this grinding machine would produce a propelling force for the spacecraft via Newton's Third Law of Motion. The amount of propulsion produced at any one time would be achieved by increasing/decreasing the rotational speed of the grinding wheel.



The electrical source for the electric motor of the grinding machine could be a small nuclear power plant on board the spacecraft. The 'fuel' source could be long steel rods or large rocks. A source of rocks could be obtained by mining an asteroid field or a small moon. Lastly, I think that diamond grinding wheels would probably be the most ideal to use due to their durability and longevity.



Would a grinding machine be a simple and workable propulsion system for an interplanetary spacecraft?



enter image description here










share|improve this question











$endgroup$







  • 2




    $begingroup$
    It would need 2 grinding machines for a counter balance.
    $endgroup$
    – Muze
    3 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    @Muze, thanks for pointing that out
    $endgroup$
    – HRIATEXP
    1 hour ago















4












$begingroup$


I am wondering if any space agency has ever considered using a grinding machine as a propulsion system for an interplanetary spacecraft. This system would not be used to lift the spacecraft off of a planet's surface, but rather used solely as an interplanetary/interstellar propulsion system.



The working principle is a simple one (see picture below). This grinding machine would be located at the stern of the spacecraft. Metal shavings flying off of the grinding wheel of this grinding machine would produce a propelling force for the spacecraft via Newton's Third Law of Motion. The amount of propulsion produced at any one time would be achieved by increasing/decreasing the rotational speed of the grinding wheel.



The electrical source for the electric motor of the grinding machine could be a small nuclear power plant on board the spacecraft. The 'fuel' source could be long steel rods or large rocks. A source of rocks could be obtained by mining an asteroid field or a small moon. Lastly, I think that diamond grinding wheels would probably be the most ideal to use due to their durability and longevity.



Would a grinding machine be a simple and workable propulsion system for an interplanetary spacecraft?



enter image description here










share|improve this question











$endgroup$







  • 2




    $begingroup$
    It would need 2 grinding machines for a counter balance.
    $endgroup$
    – Muze
    3 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    @Muze, thanks for pointing that out
    $endgroup$
    – HRIATEXP
    1 hour ago













4












4








4





$begingroup$


I am wondering if any space agency has ever considered using a grinding machine as a propulsion system for an interplanetary spacecraft. This system would not be used to lift the spacecraft off of a planet's surface, but rather used solely as an interplanetary/interstellar propulsion system.



The working principle is a simple one (see picture below). This grinding machine would be located at the stern of the spacecraft. Metal shavings flying off of the grinding wheel of this grinding machine would produce a propelling force for the spacecraft via Newton's Third Law of Motion. The amount of propulsion produced at any one time would be achieved by increasing/decreasing the rotational speed of the grinding wheel.



The electrical source for the electric motor of the grinding machine could be a small nuclear power plant on board the spacecraft. The 'fuel' source could be long steel rods or large rocks. A source of rocks could be obtained by mining an asteroid field or a small moon. Lastly, I think that diamond grinding wheels would probably be the most ideal to use due to their durability and longevity.



Would a grinding machine be a simple and workable propulsion system for an interplanetary spacecraft?



enter image description here










share|improve this question











$endgroup$




I am wondering if any space agency has ever considered using a grinding machine as a propulsion system for an interplanetary spacecraft. This system would not be used to lift the spacecraft off of a planet's surface, but rather used solely as an interplanetary/interstellar propulsion system.



The working principle is a simple one (see picture below). This grinding machine would be located at the stern of the spacecraft. Metal shavings flying off of the grinding wheel of this grinding machine would produce a propelling force for the spacecraft via Newton's Third Law of Motion. The amount of propulsion produced at any one time would be achieved by increasing/decreasing the rotational speed of the grinding wheel.



The electrical source for the electric motor of the grinding machine could be a small nuclear power plant on board the spacecraft. The 'fuel' source could be long steel rods or large rocks. A source of rocks could be obtained by mining an asteroid field or a small moon. Lastly, I think that diamond grinding wheels would probably be the most ideal to use due to their durability and longevity.



Would a grinding machine be a simple and workable propulsion system for an interplanetary spacecraft?



enter image description here







spacecraft propulsion engine-design physics design-alternative






share|improve this question















share|improve this question













share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited 1 hour ago







HRIATEXP

















asked 4 hours ago









HRIATEXPHRIATEXP

1776




1776







  • 2




    $begingroup$
    It would need 2 grinding machines for a counter balance.
    $endgroup$
    – Muze
    3 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    @Muze, thanks for pointing that out
    $endgroup$
    – HRIATEXP
    1 hour ago












  • 2




    $begingroup$
    It would need 2 grinding machines for a counter balance.
    $endgroup$
    – Muze
    3 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    @Muze, thanks for pointing that out
    $endgroup$
    – HRIATEXP
    1 hour ago







2




2




$begingroup$
It would need 2 grinding machines for a counter balance.
$endgroup$
– Muze
3 hours ago




$begingroup$
It would need 2 grinding machines for a counter balance.
$endgroup$
– Muze
3 hours ago












$begingroup$
@Muze, thanks for pointing that out
$endgroup$
– HRIATEXP
1 hour ago




$begingroup$
@Muze, thanks for pointing that out
$endgroup$
– HRIATEXP
1 hour ago










2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes


















2












$begingroup$

I don't know if it has ever been considered by anyone.



In my view, this is not a good idea for at least the following reasons:



  1. It is equivalent to mechanically throwing things retrograde. See this video for an overly simple example. This is obviously not a good way for propulsion, as the specific impulse is very low. Let's talk just about the impulse $$p=mv$$ here, where $m$ is the "reaction mass", i.e. the mass of the material that's being ground, the object being throw backwards, or chemical propellant. $v$ is the velocity of the reaction mass relative to the spacecraft. The velocity $v$ of the sparks is in the order of a few m/s (same velocity as the edge of the grinding wheel. With chemical propellants, it is a few km/s. So, for the same amount $m$ of reaction mass that you carry, classical propulsion gives you a factor of about 1000 more impulse than grinding.

  2. The produced momentum is kind of stochastic. As can be seen in your graphic, the sparks form a cone instead of a straight line. While the upward and the downward motions statistically cancel each other, their vertical components are a waste. While admittedly this also applies to chemical rocket engines (and ion thrusters?), just throwing some stuff overboard would be more efficient in this respect.

Still, I like this question for thinking out of the box. On a side note, reading the title reminded me of this passage of J.D. Clark's book "Ignition!":




F.A. Tsander in Moscow [...] had suggested that an astronaut might stretch his fuel supply by imitating Phileas Fogg. When a fuel tank was emptied, the astronaut could simply grind it up and add the powdered aluminum thus obtaining to the remaining fuel, whose heating value would be correspondingly enhanced!




I think this was actually tried, but found not to work well because the Aluminium particles take too long to combust, i.e. they continue to burn after they have left the combustion chamber. (Some?) Solid rocket propellants are based on Aluminium, though, but that's different.






share|improve this answer









$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    Don't make the velocity "a few m/s". The question doesn't constrain the wheel and bar to any particular composition, there's no reason to choose the worst case to base your answer on. Also, cosine losses are often present in real propulsion systems for various reasons, they are not show-stoppers.
    $endgroup$
    – uhoh
    48 mins ago



















1












$begingroup$

Good for you, for thinking outside the box! Fearlessly pursuing new ideas is where any new breakthrough comes from.



But rocket exhaust moves at thousands of meters per second -- supersonic speeds. Recalling the formula relating acceleration to velocity for circular motion, a=v^2/r. So, given a velocity of 3,000 meters per second and a wheel radius of, say, 1 meter, the acceleration at the rim would be roughly 9,000,000 m/s^2, or 900,000 times Earth gravity. And angular velocity, v=Rw, or 9,000,000 radians per second. I think you would have trouble spinning the wheel up to that kind of speed, and I think you would have trouble finding a wheel material that wouldn't fly apart.






share|improve this answer









$endgroup$








  • 2




    $begingroup$
    Why can't the wheel be 1cm or even 1 mm in diameter? Maybe outside-the-box thinking is possible in answers as well? There are applications in spaceflight where high Isp is needed but at low thrust (e.g. anywhere solar-electric propulsion is used) so a system with high velocity but physically small scale might be interesting to explore for the interplanetary spacecraft.
    $endgroup$
    – uhoh
    40 mins ago







  • 1




    $begingroup$
    The speed at the rim is the radius times the angular speed. If you cut the radius by a factor of ten the angular speed has to increase by a factor of ten to keep the speed at the rim constant. I believe that brings us up to a hundred million radians per second. I look at those numbers and, well, I think we would probably have to put some work into it yet. It's pretty fast.
    $endgroup$
    – Greg
    26 mins ago










  • $begingroup$
    Okay now I'm going to think about this more myself, thanks!
    $endgroup$
    – uhoh
    21 mins ago











Your Answer





StackExchange.ifUsing("editor", function ()
return StackExchange.using("mathjaxEditing", function ()
StackExchange.MarkdownEditor.creationCallbacks.add(function (editor, postfix)
StackExchange.mathjaxEditing.prepareWmdForMathJax(editor, postfix, [["$", "$"], ["\\(","\\)"]]);
);
);
, "mathjax-editing");

StackExchange.ready(function()
var channelOptions =
tags: "".split(" "),
id: "508"
;
initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);

StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function()
// Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled)
StackExchange.using("snippets", function()
createEditor();
);

else
createEditor();

);

function createEditor()
StackExchange.prepareEditor(
heartbeatType: 'answer',
autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
convertImagesToLinks: false,
noModals: true,
showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
reputationToPostImages: null,
bindNavPrevention: true,
postfix: "",
imageUploader:
brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
allowUrls: true
,
noCode: true, onDemand: true,
discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
);



);













draft saved

draft discarded


















StackExchange.ready(
function ()
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fspace.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f35177%2fwould-a-grinding-machine-be-a-simple-and-workable-propulsion-system-for-an-inter%23new-answer', 'question_page');

);

Post as a guest















Required, but never shown

























2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes








2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes









active

oldest

votes






active

oldest

votes









2












$begingroup$

I don't know if it has ever been considered by anyone.



In my view, this is not a good idea for at least the following reasons:



  1. It is equivalent to mechanically throwing things retrograde. See this video for an overly simple example. This is obviously not a good way for propulsion, as the specific impulse is very low. Let's talk just about the impulse $$p=mv$$ here, where $m$ is the "reaction mass", i.e. the mass of the material that's being ground, the object being throw backwards, or chemical propellant. $v$ is the velocity of the reaction mass relative to the spacecraft. The velocity $v$ of the sparks is in the order of a few m/s (same velocity as the edge of the grinding wheel. With chemical propellants, it is a few km/s. So, for the same amount $m$ of reaction mass that you carry, classical propulsion gives you a factor of about 1000 more impulse than grinding.

  2. The produced momentum is kind of stochastic. As can be seen in your graphic, the sparks form a cone instead of a straight line. While the upward and the downward motions statistically cancel each other, their vertical components are a waste. While admittedly this also applies to chemical rocket engines (and ion thrusters?), just throwing some stuff overboard would be more efficient in this respect.

Still, I like this question for thinking out of the box. On a side note, reading the title reminded me of this passage of J.D. Clark's book "Ignition!":




F.A. Tsander in Moscow [...] had suggested that an astronaut might stretch his fuel supply by imitating Phileas Fogg. When a fuel tank was emptied, the astronaut could simply grind it up and add the powdered aluminum thus obtaining to the remaining fuel, whose heating value would be correspondingly enhanced!




I think this was actually tried, but found not to work well because the Aluminium particles take too long to combust, i.e. they continue to burn after they have left the combustion chamber. (Some?) Solid rocket propellants are based on Aluminium, though, but that's different.






share|improve this answer









$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    Don't make the velocity "a few m/s". The question doesn't constrain the wheel and bar to any particular composition, there's no reason to choose the worst case to base your answer on. Also, cosine losses are often present in real propulsion systems for various reasons, they are not show-stoppers.
    $endgroup$
    – uhoh
    48 mins ago
















2












$begingroup$

I don't know if it has ever been considered by anyone.



In my view, this is not a good idea for at least the following reasons:



  1. It is equivalent to mechanically throwing things retrograde. See this video for an overly simple example. This is obviously not a good way for propulsion, as the specific impulse is very low. Let's talk just about the impulse $$p=mv$$ here, where $m$ is the "reaction mass", i.e. the mass of the material that's being ground, the object being throw backwards, or chemical propellant. $v$ is the velocity of the reaction mass relative to the spacecraft. The velocity $v$ of the sparks is in the order of a few m/s (same velocity as the edge of the grinding wheel. With chemical propellants, it is a few km/s. So, for the same amount $m$ of reaction mass that you carry, classical propulsion gives you a factor of about 1000 more impulse than grinding.

  2. The produced momentum is kind of stochastic. As can be seen in your graphic, the sparks form a cone instead of a straight line. While the upward and the downward motions statistically cancel each other, their vertical components are a waste. While admittedly this also applies to chemical rocket engines (and ion thrusters?), just throwing some stuff overboard would be more efficient in this respect.

Still, I like this question for thinking out of the box. On a side note, reading the title reminded me of this passage of J.D. Clark's book "Ignition!":




F.A. Tsander in Moscow [...] had suggested that an astronaut might stretch his fuel supply by imitating Phileas Fogg. When a fuel tank was emptied, the astronaut could simply grind it up and add the powdered aluminum thus obtaining to the remaining fuel, whose heating value would be correspondingly enhanced!




I think this was actually tried, but found not to work well because the Aluminium particles take too long to combust, i.e. they continue to burn after they have left the combustion chamber. (Some?) Solid rocket propellants are based on Aluminium, though, but that's different.






share|improve this answer









$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    Don't make the velocity "a few m/s". The question doesn't constrain the wheel and bar to any particular composition, there's no reason to choose the worst case to base your answer on. Also, cosine losses are often present in real propulsion systems for various reasons, they are not show-stoppers.
    $endgroup$
    – uhoh
    48 mins ago














2












2








2





$begingroup$

I don't know if it has ever been considered by anyone.



In my view, this is not a good idea for at least the following reasons:



  1. It is equivalent to mechanically throwing things retrograde. See this video for an overly simple example. This is obviously not a good way for propulsion, as the specific impulse is very low. Let's talk just about the impulse $$p=mv$$ here, where $m$ is the "reaction mass", i.e. the mass of the material that's being ground, the object being throw backwards, or chemical propellant. $v$ is the velocity of the reaction mass relative to the spacecraft. The velocity $v$ of the sparks is in the order of a few m/s (same velocity as the edge of the grinding wheel. With chemical propellants, it is a few km/s. So, for the same amount $m$ of reaction mass that you carry, classical propulsion gives you a factor of about 1000 more impulse than grinding.

  2. The produced momentum is kind of stochastic. As can be seen in your graphic, the sparks form a cone instead of a straight line. While the upward and the downward motions statistically cancel each other, their vertical components are a waste. While admittedly this also applies to chemical rocket engines (and ion thrusters?), just throwing some stuff overboard would be more efficient in this respect.

Still, I like this question for thinking out of the box. On a side note, reading the title reminded me of this passage of J.D. Clark's book "Ignition!":




F.A. Tsander in Moscow [...] had suggested that an astronaut might stretch his fuel supply by imitating Phileas Fogg. When a fuel tank was emptied, the astronaut could simply grind it up and add the powdered aluminum thus obtaining to the remaining fuel, whose heating value would be correspondingly enhanced!




I think this was actually tried, but found not to work well because the Aluminium particles take too long to combust, i.e. they continue to burn after they have left the combustion chamber. (Some?) Solid rocket propellants are based on Aluminium, though, but that's different.






share|improve this answer









$endgroup$



I don't know if it has ever been considered by anyone.



In my view, this is not a good idea for at least the following reasons:



  1. It is equivalent to mechanically throwing things retrograde. See this video for an overly simple example. This is obviously not a good way for propulsion, as the specific impulse is very low. Let's talk just about the impulse $$p=mv$$ here, where $m$ is the "reaction mass", i.e. the mass of the material that's being ground, the object being throw backwards, or chemical propellant. $v$ is the velocity of the reaction mass relative to the spacecraft. The velocity $v$ of the sparks is in the order of a few m/s (same velocity as the edge of the grinding wheel. With chemical propellants, it is a few km/s. So, for the same amount $m$ of reaction mass that you carry, classical propulsion gives you a factor of about 1000 more impulse than grinding.

  2. The produced momentum is kind of stochastic. As can be seen in your graphic, the sparks form a cone instead of a straight line. While the upward and the downward motions statistically cancel each other, their vertical components are a waste. While admittedly this also applies to chemical rocket engines (and ion thrusters?), just throwing some stuff overboard would be more efficient in this respect.

Still, I like this question for thinking out of the box. On a side note, reading the title reminded me of this passage of J.D. Clark's book "Ignition!":




F.A. Tsander in Moscow [...] had suggested that an astronaut might stretch his fuel supply by imitating Phileas Fogg. When a fuel tank was emptied, the astronaut could simply grind it up and add the powdered aluminum thus obtaining to the remaining fuel, whose heating value would be correspondingly enhanced!




I think this was actually tried, but found not to work well because the Aluminium particles take too long to combust, i.e. they continue to burn after they have left the combustion chamber. (Some?) Solid rocket propellants are based on Aluminium, though, but that's different.







share|improve this answer












share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer










answered 2 hours ago









Everyday AstronautEveryday Astronaut

2,215832




2,215832











  • $begingroup$
    Don't make the velocity "a few m/s". The question doesn't constrain the wheel and bar to any particular composition, there's no reason to choose the worst case to base your answer on. Also, cosine losses are often present in real propulsion systems for various reasons, they are not show-stoppers.
    $endgroup$
    – uhoh
    48 mins ago

















  • $begingroup$
    Don't make the velocity "a few m/s". The question doesn't constrain the wheel and bar to any particular composition, there's no reason to choose the worst case to base your answer on. Also, cosine losses are often present in real propulsion systems for various reasons, they are not show-stoppers.
    $endgroup$
    – uhoh
    48 mins ago
















$begingroup$
Don't make the velocity "a few m/s". The question doesn't constrain the wheel and bar to any particular composition, there's no reason to choose the worst case to base your answer on. Also, cosine losses are often present in real propulsion systems for various reasons, they are not show-stoppers.
$endgroup$
– uhoh
48 mins ago





$begingroup$
Don't make the velocity "a few m/s". The question doesn't constrain the wheel and bar to any particular composition, there's no reason to choose the worst case to base your answer on. Also, cosine losses are often present in real propulsion systems for various reasons, they are not show-stoppers.
$endgroup$
– uhoh
48 mins ago












1












$begingroup$

Good for you, for thinking outside the box! Fearlessly pursuing new ideas is where any new breakthrough comes from.



But rocket exhaust moves at thousands of meters per second -- supersonic speeds. Recalling the formula relating acceleration to velocity for circular motion, a=v^2/r. So, given a velocity of 3,000 meters per second and a wheel radius of, say, 1 meter, the acceleration at the rim would be roughly 9,000,000 m/s^2, or 900,000 times Earth gravity. And angular velocity, v=Rw, or 9,000,000 radians per second. I think you would have trouble spinning the wheel up to that kind of speed, and I think you would have trouble finding a wheel material that wouldn't fly apart.






share|improve this answer









$endgroup$








  • 2




    $begingroup$
    Why can't the wheel be 1cm or even 1 mm in diameter? Maybe outside-the-box thinking is possible in answers as well? There are applications in spaceflight where high Isp is needed but at low thrust (e.g. anywhere solar-electric propulsion is used) so a system with high velocity but physically small scale might be interesting to explore for the interplanetary spacecraft.
    $endgroup$
    – uhoh
    40 mins ago







  • 1




    $begingroup$
    The speed at the rim is the radius times the angular speed. If you cut the radius by a factor of ten the angular speed has to increase by a factor of ten to keep the speed at the rim constant. I believe that brings us up to a hundred million radians per second. I look at those numbers and, well, I think we would probably have to put some work into it yet. It's pretty fast.
    $endgroup$
    – Greg
    26 mins ago










  • $begingroup$
    Okay now I'm going to think about this more myself, thanks!
    $endgroup$
    – uhoh
    21 mins ago















1












$begingroup$

Good for you, for thinking outside the box! Fearlessly pursuing new ideas is where any new breakthrough comes from.



But rocket exhaust moves at thousands of meters per second -- supersonic speeds. Recalling the formula relating acceleration to velocity for circular motion, a=v^2/r. So, given a velocity of 3,000 meters per second and a wheel radius of, say, 1 meter, the acceleration at the rim would be roughly 9,000,000 m/s^2, or 900,000 times Earth gravity. And angular velocity, v=Rw, or 9,000,000 radians per second. I think you would have trouble spinning the wheel up to that kind of speed, and I think you would have trouble finding a wheel material that wouldn't fly apart.






share|improve this answer









$endgroup$








  • 2




    $begingroup$
    Why can't the wheel be 1cm or even 1 mm in diameter? Maybe outside-the-box thinking is possible in answers as well? There are applications in spaceflight where high Isp is needed but at low thrust (e.g. anywhere solar-electric propulsion is used) so a system with high velocity but physically small scale might be interesting to explore for the interplanetary spacecraft.
    $endgroup$
    – uhoh
    40 mins ago







  • 1




    $begingroup$
    The speed at the rim is the radius times the angular speed. If you cut the radius by a factor of ten the angular speed has to increase by a factor of ten to keep the speed at the rim constant. I believe that brings us up to a hundred million radians per second. I look at those numbers and, well, I think we would probably have to put some work into it yet. It's pretty fast.
    $endgroup$
    – Greg
    26 mins ago










  • $begingroup$
    Okay now I'm going to think about this more myself, thanks!
    $endgroup$
    – uhoh
    21 mins ago













1












1








1





$begingroup$

Good for you, for thinking outside the box! Fearlessly pursuing new ideas is where any new breakthrough comes from.



But rocket exhaust moves at thousands of meters per second -- supersonic speeds. Recalling the formula relating acceleration to velocity for circular motion, a=v^2/r. So, given a velocity of 3,000 meters per second and a wheel radius of, say, 1 meter, the acceleration at the rim would be roughly 9,000,000 m/s^2, or 900,000 times Earth gravity. And angular velocity, v=Rw, or 9,000,000 radians per second. I think you would have trouble spinning the wheel up to that kind of speed, and I think you would have trouble finding a wheel material that wouldn't fly apart.






share|improve this answer









$endgroup$



Good for you, for thinking outside the box! Fearlessly pursuing new ideas is where any new breakthrough comes from.



But rocket exhaust moves at thousands of meters per second -- supersonic speeds. Recalling the formula relating acceleration to velocity for circular motion, a=v^2/r. So, given a velocity of 3,000 meters per second and a wheel radius of, say, 1 meter, the acceleration at the rim would be roughly 9,000,000 m/s^2, or 900,000 times Earth gravity. And angular velocity, v=Rw, or 9,000,000 radians per second. I think you would have trouble spinning the wheel up to that kind of speed, and I think you would have trouble finding a wheel material that wouldn't fly apart.







share|improve this answer












share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer










answered 2 hours ago









GregGreg

84137




84137







  • 2




    $begingroup$
    Why can't the wheel be 1cm or even 1 mm in diameter? Maybe outside-the-box thinking is possible in answers as well? There are applications in spaceflight where high Isp is needed but at low thrust (e.g. anywhere solar-electric propulsion is used) so a system with high velocity but physically small scale might be interesting to explore for the interplanetary spacecraft.
    $endgroup$
    – uhoh
    40 mins ago







  • 1




    $begingroup$
    The speed at the rim is the radius times the angular speed. If you cut the radius by a factor of ten the angular speed has to increase by a factor of ten to keep the speed at the rim constant. I believe that brings us up to a hundred million radians per second. I look at those numbers and, well, I think we would probably have to put some work into it yet. It's pretty fast.
    $endgroup$
    – Greg
    26 mins ago










  • $begingroup$
    Okay now I'm going to think about this more myself, thanks!
    $endgroup$
    – uhoh
    21 mins ago












  • 2




    $begingroup$
    Why can't the wheel be 1cm or even 1 mm in diameter? Maybe outside-the-box thinking is possible in answers as well? There are applications in spaceflight where high Isp is needed but at low thrust (e.g. anywhere solar-electric propulsion is used) so a system with high velocity but physically small scale might be interesting to explore for the interplanetary spacecraft.
    $endgroup$
    – uhoh
    40 mins ago







  • 1




    $begingroup$
    The speed at the rim is the radius times the angular speed. If you cut the radius by a factor of ten the angular speed has to increase by a factor of ten to keep the speed at the rim constant. I believe that brings us up to a hundred million radians per second. I look at those numbers and, well, I think we would probably have to put some work into it yet. It's pretty fast.
    $endgroup$
    – Greg
    26 mins ago










  • $begingroup$
    Okay now I'm going to think about this more myself, thanks!
    $endgroup$
    – uhoh
    21 mins ago







2




2




$begingroup$
Why can't the wheel be 1cm or even 1 mm in diameter? Maybe outside-the-box thinking is possible in answers as well? There are applications in spaceflight where high Isp is needed but at low thrust (e.g. anywhere solar-electric propulsion is used) so a system with high velocity but physically small scale might be interesting to explore for the interplanetary spacecraft.
$endgroup$
– uhoh
40 mins ago





$begingroup$
Why can't the wheel be 1cm or even 1 mm in diameter? Maybe outside-the-box thinking is possible in answers as well? There are applications in spaceflight where high Isp is needed but at low thrust (e.g. anywhere solar-electric propulsion is used) so a system with high velocity but physically small scale might be interesting to explore for the interplanetary spacecraft.
$endgroup$
– uhoh
40 mins ago





1




1




$begingroup$
The speed at the rim is the radius times the angular speed. If you cut the radius by a factor of ten the angular speed has to increase by a factor of ten to keep the speed at the rim constant. I believe that brings us up to a hundred million radians per second. I look at those numbers and, well, I think we would probably have to put some work into it yet. It's pretty fast.
$endgroup$
– Greg
26 mins ago




$begingroup$
The speed at the rim is the radius times the angular speed. If you cut the radius by a factor of ten the angular speed has to increase by a factor of ten to keep the speed at the rim constant. I believe that brings us up to a hundred million radians per second. I look at those numbers and, well, I think we would probably have to put some work into it yet. It's pretty fast.
$endgroup$
– Greg
26 mins ago












$begingroup$
Okay now I'm going to think about this more myself, thanks!
$endgroup$
– uhoh
21 mins ago




$begingroup$
Okay now I'm going to think about this more myself, thanks!
$endgroup$
– uhoh
21 mins ago

















draft saved

draft discarded
















































Thanks for contributing an answer to Space Exploration Stack Exchange!


  • Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!

But avoid


  • Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.

  • Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.

Use MathJax to format equations. MathJax reference.


To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.




draft saved


draft discarded














StackExchange.ready(
function ()
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fspace.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f35177%2fwould-a-grinding-machine-be-a-simple-and-workable-propulsion-system-for-an-inter%23new-answer', 'question_page');

);

Post as a guest















Required, but never shown





















































Required, but never shown














Required, but never shown












Required, but never shown







Required, but never shown

































Required, but never shown














Required, but never shown












Required, but never shown







Required, but never shown







Popular posts from this blog

How to create a command for the “strange m” symbol in latex? Announcing the arrival of Valued Associate #679: Cesar Manara Planned maintenance scheduled April 23, 2019 at 23:30 UTC (7:30pm US/Eastern)How do you make your own symbol when Detexify fails?Writing bold small caps with mathpazo packageplus-minus symbol with parenthesis around the minus signGreek character in Beamer document titleHow to create dashed right arrow over symbol?Currency symbol: Turkish LiraDouble prec as a single symbol?Plus Sign Too Big; How to Call adfbullet?Is there a TeX macro for three-legged pi?How do I get my integral-like symbol to align like the integral?How to selectively substitute a letter with another symbol representing the same letterHow do I generate a less than symbol and vertical bar that are the same height?

Българска екзархия Съдържание История | Български екзарси | Вижте също | Външни препратки | Литература | Бележки | НавигацияУстав за управлението на българската екзархия. Цариград, 1870Слово на Ловешкия митрополит Иларион при откриването на Българския народен събор в Цариград на 23. II. 1870 г.Българската правда и гръцката кривда. От С. М. (= Софийски Мелетий). Цариград, 1872Предстоятели на Българската екзархияПодмененият ВеликденИнформационна агенция „Фокус“Димитър Ризов. Българите в техните исторически, етнографически и политически граници (Атлас съдържащ 40 карти). Berlin, Königliche Hoflithographie, Hof-Buch- und -Steindruckerei Wilhelm Greve, 1917Report of the International Commission to Inquire into the Causes and Conduct of the Balkan Wars

Чепеларе Съдържание География | История | Население | Спортни и природни забележителности | Културни и исторически обекти | Религии | Обществени институции | Известни личности | Редовни събития | Галерия | Източници | Литература | Външни препратки | Навигация41°43′23.99″ с. ш. 24°41′09.99″ и. д. / 41.723333° с. ш. 24.686111° и. д.*ЧепелареЧепеларски Linux fest 2002Начало на Зимен сезон 2005/06Национални хайдушки празници „Капитан Петко Войвода“Град ЧепелареЧепеларе – народният ски курортbgrod.orgwww.terranatura.hit.bgСправка за населението на гр. Исперих, общ. Исперих, обл. РазградМузей на родопския карстМузей на спорта и скитеЧепеларебългарскибългарскианглийскитукИстория на градаСки писти в ЧепелареВремето в ЧепелареРадио и телевизия в ЧепелареЧепеларе мами с родопски чар и добри пистиЕвтин туризъм и снежни атракции в ЧепелареМестоположениеИнформация и снимки от музея на родопския карст3D панорами от ЧепелареЧепелареррр