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How to define limit operations in general topological spaces? Are nets able to do this?


is a net stronger than a transfinite sequence for characterizing topology?Permitted value of epsilon in Discrete Metric SpaceWhy are topological spaces interesting to study?Define $f(y)=d(x_0,y)$, prove that $f$ is continuous.Finite point set has limit points for general topological spaces?Is the uniform limit of continuous functions continuous for topological spaces?Can we define the concept of limit without a topology?Equivalent definition of limit of a function (Reference request)Can limits be defined in a more algebraic way, instead of using the completely analytic $delta$-$epsilon$ definition?Is Wikipedia correct about bounded sets?













4












$begingroup$


I was always under the impression that in order to take a limit, I need to have a metric defined on my underlying space.



For $f:mathbbRto mathbbR$,
$
lim_xto x_0f(x)=a
$

means that for all $epsilon >0 $ there exists a $delta(epsilon)>0$ such that $|f(x)-a|<epsilon$ whenever $0< |x-x_0|<delta$. The notion of a limit uses the underlying metric $|cdot|$ of $mathbbR$.



Is there a consistent way of dispensing with the metric and still define a limit operation in some topological space? Are nets able to do this?










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$
















    4












    $begingroup$


    I was always under the impression that in order to take a limit, I need to have a metric defined on my underlying space.



    For $f:mathbbRto mathbbR$,
    $
    lim_xto x_0f(x)=a
    $

    means that for all $epsilon >0 $ there exists a $delta(epsilon)>0$ such that $|f(x)-a|<epsilon$ whenever $0< |x-x_0|<delta$. The notion of a limit uses the underlying metric $|cdot|$ of $mathbbR$.



    Is there a consistent way of dispensing with the metric and still define a limit operation in some topological space? Are nets able to do this?










    share|cite|improve this question











    $endgroup$














      4












      4








      4


      1



      $begingroup$


      I was always under the impression that in order to take a limit, I need to have a metric defined on my underlying space.



      For $f:mathbbRto mathbbR$,
      $
      lim_xto x_0f(x)=a
      $

      means that for all $epsilon >0 $ there exists a $delta(epsilon)>0$ such that $|f(x)-a|<epsilon$ whenever $0< |x-x_0|<delta$. The notion of a limit uses the underlying metric $|cdot|$ of $mathbbR$.



      Is there a consistent way of dispensing with the metric and still define a limit operation in some topological space? Are nets able to do this?










      share|cite|improve this question











      $endgroup$




      I was always under the impression that in order to take a limit, I need to have a metric defined on my underlying space.



      For $f:mathbbRto mathbbR$,
      $
      lim_xto x_0f(x)=a
      $

      means that for all $epsilon >0 $ there exists a $delta(epsilon)>0$ such that $|f(x)-a|<epsilon$ whenever $0< |x-x_0|<delta$. The notion of a limit uses the underlying metric $|cdot|$ of $mathbbR$.



      Is there a consistent way of dispensing with the metric and still define a limit operation in some topological space? Are nets able to do this?







      real-analysis general-topology






      share|cite|improve this question















      share|cite|improve this question













      share|cite|improve this question




      share|cite|improve this question








      edited 10 hours ago









      YuiTo Cheng

      2,0532637




      2,0532637










      asked 13 hours ago









      EEEBEEEB

      52738




      52738




















          3 Answers
          3






          active

          oldest

          votes


















          6












          $begingroup$

          The general definition of continuity is as follows: let $X$ and $Y$ be topological spaces and $f:X to Y$ be a map. $F$ is continuous if the inverse image of any open set is open. $f$ is continuous at a point $x$ iff for every open set $V$ containing $f(x)$ there exists an open set $U$ containing $x$ such that $f(U) subset V$.



          Continuity of $f$ is equivalent to the following: whenever a net $(x_i)_i in I$ converges to some point $x$ we have $x$ we have $(f(x_i))_i in I$ converges to $f(x)$. Similarly, $f$ is continuous at a point $x$ iff whenever a net $(x_i)_i in I$ converges to $x$ we have $x$ we have $(f(x_i))_i in I$ converges to $f(x)$.






          share|cite|improve this answer









          $endgroup$




















            6












            $begingroup$

            The notion of limit is well-defined for any topological space, even non-metric ones.



            Here is the correct definition: let $f : X rightarrow Y$ be a function between two topological spaces. We say that the limit of $f$ at a point $x in X$ is the point $y in Y$ if for all neighborhoods $N$ of $y$ in $Y$, there exists a neighborhood $M$ of $x$ in $X$ such that $f(M) subset N$.



            But note that the sequential characterization of limit ($f$ tends to $y$ in $x$ iff for every sequence $(x_n) rightarrow x$, one has $f(x_n) rightarrow y$) is not true in a general topological space. It is true if $X$ is metrizable.






            share|cite|improve this answer











            $endgroup$








            • 3




              $begingroup$
              Perhaps it's worth mentioning that the limit might fail to be unique, in non-Hausdorff spaces.
              $endgroup$
              – chi
              6 hours ago










            • $begingroup$
              @chi Yes, thank you for this comment ! Indeed the precision can be usefull.
              $endgroup$
              – TheSilverDoe
              5 hours ago


















            4












            $begingroup$

            A net is a function from an directed set $(I, le)$ (say) to a space $X$.



            $f: I to X$ converges to $x$ iff for every open set $O$ that contains $x$ there exists some $i_0 in I$ (depending on $O$, in general) such that for all $i in I, i ge i_0$ we know that $f(i) in O$.



            The point $f(i)$ is often denoted by subscript: $x_i$. This subscript an be any member of the directed set $I$. A sequence is the special case where $I=mathbbN, le)$ (in its standard order). The definition is non-metric in that we use open sets containing $x$ (not open balls) but for metric spaces it suffices to check this for open balls $B(x,varepsilon), varepsilon>0$ as these form a local base at $x$.



            I think that $lim_x to a f(x)$ can be defined by considering all nets $n$ on $Xsetminus a$ that converge to $a$, and if all those nets have the property that $f circ n$ is a net in $Y$ converging to the same $b in Y$, then this $b$ is called the limit of $f$ as $x$ tends to $a$.



            If $X$ has a topology induced from a metric, e.g. then we can restrict ourselves to sequences instead of general nets in the above characterisation.






            share|cite|improve this answer











            $endgroup$












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              3 Answers
              3






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              3 Answers
              3






              active

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              active

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              active

              oldest

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              6












              $begingroup$

              The general definition of continuity is as follows: let $X$ and $Y$ be topological spaces and $f:X to Y$ be a map. $F$ is continuous if the inverse image of any open set is open. $f$ is continuous at a point $x$ iff for every open set $V$ containing $f(x)$ there exists an open set $U$ containing $x$ such that $f(U) subset V$.



              Continuity of $f$ is equivalent to the following: whenever a net $(x_i)_i in I$ converges to some point $x$ we have $x$ we have $(f(x_i))_i in I$ converges to $f(x)$. Similarly, $f$ is continuous at a point $x$ iff whenever a net $(x_i)_i in I$ converges to $x$ we have $x$ we have $(f(x_i))_i in I$ converges to $f(x)$.






              share|cite|improve this answer









              $endgroup$

















                6












                $begingroup$

                The general definition of continuity is as follows: let $X$ and $Y$ be topological spaces and $f:X to Y$ be a map. $F$ is continuous if the inverse image of any open set is open. $f$ is continuous at a point $x$ iff for every open set $V$ containing $f(x)$ there exists an open set $U$ containing $x$ such that $f(U) subset V$.



                Continuity of $f$ is equivalent to the following: whenever a net $(x_i)_i in I$ converges to some point $x$ we have $x$ we have $(f(x_i))_i in I$ converges to $f(x)$. Similarly, $f$ is continuous at a point $x$ iff whenever a net $(x_i)_i in I$ converges to $x$ we have $x$ we have $(f(x_i))_i in I$ converges to $f(x)$.






                share|cite|improve this answer









                $endgroup$















                  6












                  6








                  6





                  $begingroup$

                  The general definition of continuity is as follows: let $X$ and $Y$ be topological spaces and $f:X to Y$ be a map. $F$ is continuous if the inverse image of any open set is open. $f$ is continuous at a point $x$ iff for every open set $V$ containing $f(x)$ there exists an open set $U$ containing $x$ such that $f(U) subset V$.



                  Continuity of $f$ is equivalent to the following: whenever a net $(x_i)_i in I$ converges to some point $x$ we have $x$ we have $(f(x_i))_i in I$ converges to $f(x)$. Similarly, $f$ is continuous at a point $x$ iff whenever a net $(x_i)_i in I$ converges to $x$ we have $x$ we have $(f(x_i))_i in I$ converges to $f(x)$.






                  share|cite|improve this answer









                  $endgroup$



                  The general definition of continuity is as follows: let $X$ and $Y$ be topological spaces and $f:X to Y$ be a map. $F$ is continuous if the inverse image of any open set is open. $f$ is continuous at a point $x$ iff for every open set $V$ containing $f(x)$ there exists an open set $U$ containing $x$ such that $f(U) subset V$.



                  Continuity of $f$ is equivalent to the following: whenever a net $(x_i)_i in I$ converges to some point $x$ we have $x$ we have $(f(x_i))_i in I$ converges to $f(x)$. Similarly, $f$ is continuous at a point $x$ iff whenever a net $(x_i)_i in I$ converges to $x$ we have $x$ we have $(f(x_i))_i in I$ converges to $f(x)$.







                  share|cite|improve this answer












                  share|cite|improve this answer



                  share|cite|improve this answer










                  answered 11 hours ago









                  Kavi Rama MurthyKavi Rama Murthy

                  67.8k53067




                  67.8k53067





















                      6












                      $begingroup$

                      The notion of limit is well-defined for any topological space, even non-metric ones.



                      Here is the correct definition: let $f : X rightarrow Y$ be a function between two topological spaces. We say that the limit of $f$ at a point $x in X$ is the point $y in Y$ if for all neighborhoods $N$ of $y$ in $Y$, there exists a neighborhood $M$ of $x$ in $X$ such that $f(M) subset N$.



                      But note that the sequential characterization of limit ($f$ tends to $y$ in $x$ iff for every sequence $(x_n) rightarrow x$, one has $f(x_n) rightarrow y$) is not true in a general topological space. It is true if $X$ is metrizable.






                      share|cite|improve this answer











                      $endgroup$








                      • 3




                        $begingroup$
                        Perhaps it's worth mentioning that the limit might fail to be unique, in non-Hausdorff spaces.
                        $endgroup$
                        – chi
                        6 hours ago










                      • $begingroup$
                        @chi Yes, thank you for this comment ! Indeed the precision can be usefull.
                        $endgroup$
                        – TheSilverDoe
                        5 hours ago















                      6












                      $begingroup$

                      The notion of limit is well-defined for any topological space, even non-metric ones.



                      Here is the correct definition: let $f : X rightarrow Y$ be a function between two topological spaces. We say that the limit of $f$ at a point $x in X$ is the point $y in Y$ if for all neighborhoods $N$ of $y$ in $Y$, there exists a neighborhood $M$ of $x$ in $X$ such that $f(M) subset N$.



                      But note that the sequential characterization of limit ($f$ tends to $y$ in $x$ iff for every sequence $(x_n) rightarrow x$, one has $f(x_n) rightarrow y$) is not true in a general topological space. It is true if $X$ is metrizable.






                      share|cite|improve this answer











                      $endgroup$








                      • 3




                        $begingroup$
                        Perhaps it's worth mentioning that the limit might fail to be unique, in non-Hausdorff spaces.
                        $endgroup$
                        – chi
                        6 hours ago










                      • $begingroup$
                        @chi Yes, thank you for this comment ! Indeed the precision can be usefull.
                        $endgroup$
                        – TheSilverDoe
                        5 hours ago













                      6












                      6








                      6





                      $begingroup$

                      The notion of limit is well-defined for any topological space, even non-metric ones.



                      Here is the correct definition: let $f : X rightarrow Y$ be a function between two topological spaces. We say that the limit of $f$ at a point $x in X$ is the point $y in Y$ if for all neighborhoods $N$ of $y$ in $Y$, there exists a neighborhood $M$ of $x$ in $X$ such that $f(M) subset N$.



                      But note that the sequential characterization of limit ($f$ tends to $y$ in $x$ iff for every sequence $(x_n) rightarrow x$, one has $f(x_n) rightarrow y$) is not true in a general topological space. It is true if $X$ is metrizable.






                      share|cite|improve this answer











                      $endgroup$



                      The notion of limit is well-defined for any topological space, even non-metric ones.



                      Here is the correct definition: let $f : X rightarrow Y$ be a function between two topological spaces. We say that the limit of $f$ at a point $x in X$ is the point $y in Y$ if for all neighborhoods $N$ of $y$ in $Y$, there exists a neighborhood $M$ of $x$ in $X$ such that $f(M) subset N$.



                      But note that the sequential characterization of limit ($f$ tends to $y$ in $x$ iff for every sequence $(x_n) rightarrow x$, one has $f(x_n) rightarrow y$) is not true in a general topological space. It is true if $X$ is metrizable.







                      share|cite|improve this answer














                      share|cite|improve this answer



                      share|cite|improve this answer








                      edited 10 hours ago









                      psmears

                      71149




                      71149










                      answered 11 hours ago









                      TheSilverDoeTheSilverDoe

                      4,037114




                      4,037114







                      • 3




                        $begingroup$
                        Perhaps it's worth mentioning that the limit might fail to be unique, in non-Hausdorff spaces.
                        $endgroup$
                        – chi
                        6 hours ago










                      • $begingroup$
                        @chi Yes, thank you for this comment ! Indeed the precision can be usefull.
                        $endgroup$
                        – TheSilverDoe
                        5 hours ago












                      • 3




                        $begingroup$
                        Perhaps it's worth mentioning that the limit might fail to be unique, in non-Hausdorff spaces.
                        $endgroup$
                        – chi
                        6 hours ago










                      • $begingroup$
                        @chi Yes, thank you for this comment ! Indeed the precision can be usefull.
                        $endgroup$
                        – TheSilverDoe
                        5 hours ago







                      3




                      3




                      $begingroup$
                      Perhaps it's worth mentioning that the limit might fail to be unique, in non-Hausdorff spaces.
                      $endgroup$
                      – chi
                      6 hours ago




                      $begingroup$
                      Perhaps it's worth mentioning that the limit might fail to be unique, in non-Hausdorff spaces.
                      $endgroup$
                      – chi
                      6 hours ago












                      $begingroup$
                      @chi Yes, thank you for this comment ! Indeed the precision can be usefull.
                      $endgroup$
                      – TheSilverDoe
                      5 hours ago




                      $begingroup$
                      @chi Yes, thank you for this comment ! Indeed the precision can be usefull.
                      $endgroup$
                      – TheSilverDoe
                      5 hours ago











                      4












                      $begingroup$

                      A net is a function from an directed set $(I, le)$ (say) to a space $X$.



                      $f: I to X$ converges to $x$ iff for every open set $O$ that contains $x$ there exists some $i_0 in I$ (depending on $O$, in general) such that for all $i in I, i ge i_0$ we know that $f(i) in O$.



                      The point $f(i)$ is often denoted by subscript: $x_i$. This subscript an be any member of the directed set $I$. A sequence is the special case where $I=mathbbN, le)$ (in its standard order). The definition is non-metric in that we use open sets containing $x$ (not open balls) but for metric spaces it suffices to check this for open balls $B(x,varepsilon), varepsilon>0$ as these form a local base at $x$.



                      I think that $lim_x to a f(x)$ can be defined by considering all nets $n$ on $Xsetminus a$ that converge to $a$, and if all those nets have the property that $f circ n$ is a net in $Y$ converging to the same $b in Y$, then this $b$ is called the limit of $f$ as $x$ tends to $a$.



                      If $X$ has a topology induced from a metric, e.g. then we can restrict ourselves to sequences instead of general nets in the above characterisation.






                      share|cite|improve this answer











                      $endgroup$

















                        4












                        $begingroup$

                        A net is a function from an directed set $(I, le)$ (say) to a space $X$.



                        $f: I to X$ converges to $x$ iff for every open set $O$ that contains $x$ there exists some $i_0 in I$ (depending on $O$, in general) such that for all $i in I, i ge i_0$ we know that $f(i) in O$.



                        The point $f(i)$ is often denoted by subscript: $x_i$. This subscript an be any member of the directed set $I$. A sequence is the special case where $I=mathbbN, le)$ (in its standard order). The definition is non-metric in that we use open sets containing $x$ (not open balls) but for metric spaces it suffices to check this for open balls $B(x,varepsilon), varepsilon>0$ as these form a local base at $x$.



                        I think that $lim_x to a f(x)$ can be defined by considering all nets $n$ on $Xsetminus a$ that converge to $a$, and if all those nets have the property that $f circ n$ is a net in $Y$ converging to the same $b in Y$, then this $b$ is called the limit of $f$ as $x$ tends to $a$.



                        If $X$ has a topology induced from a metric, e.g. then we can restrict ourselves to sequences instead of general nets in the above characterisation.






                        share|cite|improve this answer











                        $endgroup$















                          4












                          4








                          4





                          $begingroup$

                          A net is a function from an directed set $(I, le)$ (say) to a space $X$.



                          $f: I to X$ converges to $x$ iff for every open set $O$ that contains $x$ there exists some $i_0 in I$ (depending on $O$, in general) such that for all $i in I, i ge i_0$ we know that $f(i) in O$.



                          The point $f(i)$ is often denoted by subscript: $x_i$. This subscript an be any member of the directed set $I$. A sequence is the special case where $I=mathbbN, le)$ (in its standard order). The definition is non-metric in that we use open sets containing $x$ (not open balls) but for metric spaces it suffices to check this for open balls $B(x,varepsilon), varepsilon>0$ as these form a local base at $x$.



                          I think that $lim_x to a f(x)$ can be defined by considering all nets $n$ on $Xsetminus a$ that converge to $a$, and if all those nets have the property that $f circ n$ is a net in $Y$ converging to the same $b in Y$, then this $b$ is called the limit of $f$ as $x$ tends to $a$.



                          If $X$ has a topology induced from a metric, e.g. then we can restrict ourselves to sequences instead of general nets in the above characterisation.






                          share|cite|improve this answer











                          $endgroup$



                          A net is a function from an directed set $(I, le)$ (say) to a space $X$.



                          $f: I to X$ converges to $x$ iff for every open set $O$ that contains $x$ there exists some $i_0 in I$ (depending on $O$, in general) such that for all $i in I, i ge i_0$ we know that $f(i) in O$.



                          The point $f(i)$ is often denoted by subscript: $x_i$. This subscript an be any member of the directed set $I$. A sequence is the special case where $I=mathbbN, le)$ (in its standard order). The definition is non-metric in that we use open sets containing $x$ (not open balls) but for metric spaces it suffices to check this for open balls $B(x,varepsilon), varepsilon>0$ as these form a local base at $x$.



                          I think that $lim_x to a f(x)$ can be defined by considering all nets $n$ on $Xsetminus a$ that converge to $a$, and if all those nets have the property that $f circ n$ is a net in $Y$ converging to the same $b in Y$, then this $b$ is called the limit of $f$ as $x$ tends to $a$.



                          If $X$ has a topology induced from a metric, e.g. then we can restrict ourselves to sequences instead of general nets in the above characterisation.







                          share|cite|improve this answer














                          share|cite|improve this answer



                          share|cite|improve this answer








                          edited 8 hours ago

























                          answered 11 hours ago









                          Henno BrandsmaHenno Brandsma

                          113k348121




                          113k348121



























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