Overthinking “…expect there to be…” Announcing the arrival of Valued Associate #679: Cesar Manara Planned maintenance scheduled April 23, 2019 at 23:30 UTC (7:30pm US/Eastern)Expect +to VS expect + ingThere being and there to beRule for questions like “Or is it?”Is using split infinitive allowed in formal English?The obscure “they”“That… be” construction“that one consider” or “that one considers”?What's the subject of “There is my biscuit!” ? And how about “There is one biscuit left”?Word classes in specific sentencePreposition before noun phrasesIs this an adverbial complement? “They led me _to believe that there was no danger_.”subject of -ing word “being”
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Overthinking “…expect there to be…”
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Planned maintenance scheduled April 23, 2019 at 23:30 UTC (7:30pm US/Eastern)Expect +to VS expect + ingThere being and there to beRule for questions like “Or is it?”Is using split infinitive allowed in formal English?The obscure “they”“That… be” construction“that one consider” or “that one considers”?What's the subject of “There is my biscuit!” ? And how about “There is one biscuit left”?Word classes in specific sentencePreposition before noun phrasesIs this an adverbial complement? “They led me _to believe that there was no danger_.”subject of -ing word “being”
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This sentence struck me as odd when I casually said it in conversation:
I expect there to be bears.
...meaning I wanted [sarcastically] bears in the cave we were planning on exploring. What allows for the odd construction of "...expect there to be..."?
I scoured the internet, found an EL&U question, found another EL&U question, and discussed with my friends to no avail. Well, to some avail, but I'm still left with questions regarding construction, and how many grammar rules I'm bending or making up.
- The word "expect" always takes an infinitive clause (never a gerund [why?]), which explains the "to be". Could we say that "to be expected" is a verb phrase?
- I think "there" is an Adverbial Demonstrative Pronoun. Adverbial because it's supporting a verb and Demonstrative Pronoun because it's replacing the known noun phrase (the cave). I'm having a hard time backing this up with sources though.
If "there" is adverbial, what verb is it supporting: "expect" or "to be"? Or, is it an entire verb phrase as I mentioned ("to be expected") that's been flip-flopped and split by "there", thus making "there" support both? (I feel like I just made that up but can't find evidence otherwise.)- My friend said "there" is a post-position, because it's after the verb (he's assuming it's supporting "expect") but I read post-positions are not common in English.
Perhaps this is a daft and overthought, unimportant question, but it's been bugging me so I'm hoping for a smarter person to help with an explanation of this construction.
(A side thought, possibly unrelated, but regarding redundancy: If "there" means "the cave", I can say "I expect bears to be in the cave." ("I expect bears to be there.") This has the same meaning as my original sentence, but re-arranged. But I could even say "I expect there to be bears in the cave" or "I expect there to be bears there" which, to me, makes "there" redundant but still grammatically correct. Why?)
grammar construction
asked Oct 23 '18 at 18:16
GwendolynGwendolyn
2816
bumped to the homepage by Community♦ 1 hour ago
This question has answers that may be good or bad; the system has marked it active so that they can be reviewed.
add a comment |
This sentence struck me as odd when I casually said it in conversation:
I expect there to be bears.
...meaning I wanted [sarcastically] bears in the cave we were planning on exploring. What allows for the odd construction of "...expect there to be..."?
I scoured the internet, found an EL&U question, found another EL&U question, and discussed with my friends to no avail. Well, to some avail, but I'm still left with questions regarding construction, and how many grammar rules I'm bending or making up.
- The word "expect" always takes an infinitive clause (never a gerund [why?]), which explains the "to be". Could we say that "to be expected" is a verb phrase?
- I think "there" is an Adverbial Demonstrative Pronoun. Adverbial because it's supporting a verb and Demonstrative Pronoun because it's replacing the known noun phrase (the cave). I'm having a hard time backing this up with sources though.
If "there" is adverbial, what verb is it supporting: "expect" or "to be"? Or, is it an entire verb phrase as I mentioned ("to be expected") that's been flip-flopped and split by "there", thus making "there" support both? (I feel like I just made that up but can't find evidence otherwise.)- My friend said "there" is a post-position, because it's after the verb (he's assuming it's supporting "expect") but I read post-positions are not common in English.
Perhaps this is a daft and overthought, unimportant question, but it's been bugging me so I'm hoping for a smarter person to help with an explanation of this construction.
(A side thought, possibly unrelated, but regarding redundancy: If "there" means "the cave", I can say "I expect bears to be in the cave." ("I expect bears to be there.") This has the same meaning as my original sentence, but re-arranged. But I could even say "I expect there to be bears in the cave" or "I expect there to be bears there" which, to me, makes "there" redundant but still grammatically correct. Why?)
grammar construction
asked Oct 23 '18 at 18:16
GwendolynGwendolyn
2816
bumped to the homepage by Community♦ 1 hour ago
This question has answers that may be good or bad; the system has marked it active so that they can be reviewed.
It sounds normal to me—although perhaps not something that would be commonly said in casual conversation. (For that, there could be bears or I think there will be bears would more likely be heard.)
– Jason Bassford
Oct 23 '18 at 21:47
@JasonBassford That much I understand. Although, interesting, I intended the statement to be more of a " I won't go if there aren't bears" sort of thing. Sort of like if you were to tell a child "I expect you to be in bed by the time I get home."
– Gwendolyn
Oct 23 '18 at 21:58
add a comment |
This sentence struck me as odd when I casually said it in conversation:
I expect there to be bears.
...meaning I wanted [sarcastically] bears in the cave we were planning on exploring. What allows for the odd construction of "...expect there to be..."?
I scoured the internet, found an EL&U question, found another EL&U question, and discussed with my friends to no avail. Well, to some avail, but I'm still left with questions regarding construction, and how many grammar rules I'm bending or making up.
- The word "expect" always takes an infinitive clause (never a gerund [why?]), which explains the "to be". Could we say that "to be expected" is a verb phrase?
- I think "there" is an Adverbial Demonstrative Pronoun. Adverbial because it's supporting a verb and Demonstrative Pronoun because it's replacing the known noun phrase (the cave). I'm having a hard time backing this up with sources though.
If "there" is adverbial, what verb is it supporting: "expect" or "to be"? Or, is it an entire verb phrase as I mentioned ("to be expected") that's been flip-flopped and split by "there", thus making "there" support both? (I feel like I just made that up but can't find evidence otherwise.)- My friend said "there" is a post-position, because it's after the verb (he's assuming it's supporting "expect") but I read post-positions are not common in English.
Perhaps this is a daft and overthought, unimportant question, but it's been bugging me so I'm hoping for a smarter person to help with an explanation of this construction.
(A side thought, possibly unrelated, but regarding redundancy: If "there" means "the cave", I can say "I expect bears to be in the cave." ("I expect bears to be there.") This has the same meaning as my original sentence, but re-arranged. But I could even say "I expect there to be bears in the cave" or "I expect there to be bears there" which, to me, makes "there" redundant but still grammatically correct. Why?)
grammar construction
asked Oct 23 '18 at 18:16
GwendolynGwendolyn
2816
This sentence struck me as odd when I casually said it in conversation:
I expect there to be bears.
...meaning I wanted [sarcastically] bears in the cave we were planning on exploring. What allows for the odd construction of "...expect there to be..."?
I scoured the internet, found an EL&U question, found another EL&U question, and discussed with my friends to no avail. Well, to some avail, but I'm still left with questions regarding construction, and how many grammar rules I'm bending or making up.
- The word "expect" always takes an infinitive clause (never a gerund [why?]), which explains the "to be". Could we say that "to be expected" is a verb phrase?
- I think "there" is an Adverbial Demonstrative Pronoun. Adverbial because it's supporting a verb and Demonstrative Pronoun because it's replacing the known noun phrase (the cave). I'm having a hard time backing this up with sources though.
If "there" is adverbial, what verb is it supporting: "expect" or "to be"? Or, is it an entire verb phrase as I mentioned ("to be expected") that's been flip-flopped and split by "there", thus making "there" support both? (I feel like I just made that up but can't find evidence otherwise.)- My friend said "there" is a post-position, because it's after the verb (he's assuming it's supporting "expect") but I read post-positions are not common in English.
Perhaps this is a daft and overthought, unimportant question, but it's been bugging me so I'm hoping for a smarter person to help with an explanation of this construction.
(A side thought, possibly unrelated, but regarding redundancy: If "there" means "the cave", I can say "I expect bears to be in the cave." ("I expect bears to be there.") This has the same meaning as my original sentence, but re-arranged. But I could even say "I expect there to be bears in the cave" or "I expect there to be bears there" which, to me, makes "there" redundant but still grammatically correct. Why?)
grammar construction
grammar construction
asked Oct 23 '18 at 18:16
GwendolynGwendolyn
2816
asked Oct 23 '18 at 18:16
GwendolynGwendolyn
2816
asked Oct 23 '18 at 18:16
GwendolynGwendolyn
2816
asked Oct 23 '18 at 18:16
GwendolynGwendolyn
2816
asked Oct 23 '18 at 18:16
GwendolynGwendolyn
2816
2816
bumped to the homepage by Community♦ 1 hour ago
This question has answers that may be good or bad; the system has marked it active so that they can be reviewed.
bumped to the homepage by Community♦ 1 hour ago
This question has answers that may be good or bad; the system has marked it active so that they can be reviewed.
It sounds normal to me—although perhaps not something that would be commonly said in casual conversation. (For that, there could be bears or I think there will be bears would more likely be heard.)
– Jason Bassford
Oct 23 '18 at 21:47
@JasonBassford That much I understand. Although, interesting, I intended the statement to be more of a " I won't go if there aren't bears" sort of thing. Sort of like if you were to tell a child "I expect you to be in bed by the time I get home."
– Gwendolyn
Oct 23 '18 at 21:58
add a comment |
It sounds normal to me—although perhaps not something that would be commonly said in casual conversation. (For that, there could be bears or I think there will be bears would more likely be heard.)
– Jason Bassford
Oct 23 '18 at 21:47
@JasonBassford That much I understand. Although, interesting, I intended the statement to be more of a " I won't go if there aren't bears" sort of thing. Sort of like if you were to tell a child "I expect you to be in bed by the time I get home."
– Gwendolyn
Oct 23 '18 at 21:58
It sounds normal to me—although perhaps not something that would be commonly said in casual conversation. (For that, there could be bears or I think there will be bears would more likely be heard.)
– Jason Bassford
Oct 23 '18 at 21:47
It sounds normal to me—although perhaps not something that would be commonly said in casual conversation. (For that, there could be bears or I think there will be bears would more likely be heard.)
– Jason Bassford
Oct 23 '18 at 21:47
@JasonBassford That much I understand. Although, interesting, I intended the statement to be more of a " I won't go if there aren't bears" sort of thing. Sort of like if you were to tell a child "I expect you to be in bed by the time I get home."
– Gwendolyn
Oct 23 '18 at 21:58
@JasonBassford That much I understand. Although, interesting, I intended the statement to be more of a " I won't go if there aren't bears" sort of thing. Sort of like if you were to tell a child "I expect you to be in bed by the time I get home."
– Gwendolyn
Oct 23 '18 at 21:58
add a comment |
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
I don't think expect always takes an infinitive clause. Here's the definition from the Oxford Dictionaries:
expect
VERB
[WITH OBJECT]
Regard (something) as likely to happen.
‘it's as well to expect the worst’
[with object and infinitive] ‘the hearing is expected to last a week’
[with clause] ‘one might expect that Hollywood would adjust its approach’
1.1 Regard (someone) as likely to do or be something.
[with object and infinitive] ‘they were not expecting him to continue’
1.2 Believe that (someone or something) will arrive soon.
‘Celia was expecting a visitor’
1.3 Require (something) as rightfully due or appropriate in the circumstances.
‘we expect great things of you’
1.4 Require (someone) to fulfil an obligation.
[with object and infinitive] ‘we expect employers to pay a reasonable salary’
1.5 (I expect) informal Used to indicate that one supposes something to be so but has no firm evidence.
‘they're just friends of his, I expect’
[with clause] ‘I expect you know them?’
Note especially definition 1.5 -- this is the version you used.
So what you're really saying is my expectation is that there will be bears [in the cave].
answered Oct 23 '18 at 20:43
Roger SinasohnRoger Sinasohn
9,80212050
Thanks Roger! This only helped answer one of my questions, though (I know, multi-part questions can be rather tedious). I know what I'm saying, as in what the sentence means, I just don't really know why it can be written like that (along with all my questions about "there" and "to be"). Thanks for help on the "expect" part though!
– Gwendolyn
Oct 23 '18 at 21:29
add a comment |
Your Answer
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I don't think expect always takes an infinitive clause. Here's the definition from the Oxford Dictionaries:
expect
VERB
[WITH OBJECT]
Regard (something) as likely to happen.
‘it's as well to expect the worst’
[with object and infinitive] ‘the hearing is expected to last a week’
[with clause] ‘one might expect that Hollywood would adjust its approach’
1.1 Regard (someone) as likely to do or be something.
[with object and infinitive] ‘they were not expecting him to continue’
1.2 Believe that (someone or something) will arrive soon.
‘Celia was expecting a visitor’
1.3 Require (something) as rightfully due or appropriate in the circumstances.
‘we expect great things of you’
1.4 Require (someone) to fulfil an obligation.
[with object and infinitive] ‘we expect employers to pay a reasonable salary’
1.5 (I expect) informal Used to indicate that one supposes something to be so but has no firm evidence.
‘they're just friends of his, I expect’
[with clause] ‘I expect you know them?’
Note especially definition 1.5 -- this is the version you used.
So what you're really saying is my expectation is that there will be bears [in the cave].
answered Oct 23 '18 at 20:43
Roger SinasohnRoger Sinasohn
9,80212050
Thanks Roger! This only helped answer one of my questions, though (I know, multi-part questions can be rather tedious). I know what I'm saying, as in what the sentence means, I just don't really know why it can be written like that (along with all my questions about "there" and "to be"). Thanks for help on the "expect" part though!
– Gwendolyn
Oct 23 '18 at 21:29
add a comment |
I don't think expect always takes an infinitive clause. Here's the definition from the Oxford Dictionaries:
expect
VERB
[WITH OBJECT]
Regard (something) as likely to happen.
‘it's as well to expect the worst’
[with object and infinitive] ‘the hearing is expected to last a week’
[with clause] ‘one might expect that Hollywood would adjust its approach’
1.1 Regard (someone) as likely to do or be something.
[with object and infinitive] ‘they were not expecting him to continue’
1.2 Believe that (someone or something) will arrive soon.
‘Celia was expecting a visitor’
1.3 Require (something) as rightfully due or appropriate in the circumstances.
‘we expect great things of you’
1.4 Require (someone) to fulfil an obligation.
[with object and infinitive] ‘we expect employers to pay a reasonable salary’
1.5 (I expect) informal Used to indicate that one supposes something to be so but has no firm evidence.
‘they're just friends of his, I expect’
[with clause] ‘I expect you know them?’
Note especially definition 1.5 -- this is the version you used.
So what you're really saying is my expectation is that there will be bears [in the cave].
answered Oct 23 '18 at 20:43
Roger SinasohnRoger Sinasohn
9,80212050
Thanks Roger! This only helped answer one of my questions, though (I know, multi-part questions can be rather tedious). I know what I'm saying, as in what the sentence means, I just don't really know why it can be written like that (along with all my questions about "there" and "to be"). Thanks for help on the "expect" part though!
– Gwendolyn
Oct 23 '18 at 21:29
add a comment |
I don't think expect always takes an infinitive clause. Here's the definition from the Oxford Dictionaries:
expect
VERB
[WITH OBJECT]
Regard (something) as likely to happen.
‘it's as well to expect the worst’
[with object and infinitive] ‘the hearing is expected to last a week’
[with clause] ‘one might expect that Hollywood would adjust its approach’
1.1 Regard (someone) as likely to do or be something.
[with object and infinitive] ‘they were not expecting him to continue’
1.2 Believe that (someone or something) will arrive soon.
‘Celia was expecting a visitor’
1.3 Require (something) as rightfully due or appropriate in the circumstances.
‘we expect great things of you’
1.4 Require (someone) to fulfil an obligation.
[with object and infinitive] ‘we expect employers to pay a reasonable salary’
1.5 (I expect) informal Used to indicate that one supposes something to be so but has no firm evidence.
‘they're just friends of his, I expect’
[with clause] ‘I expect you know them?’
Note especially definition 1.5 -- this is the version you used.
So what you're really saying is my expectation is that there will be bears [in the cave].
answered Oct 23 '18 at 20:43
Roger SinasohnRoger Sinasohn
9,80212050
I don't think expect always takes an infinitive clause. Here's the definition from the Oxford Dictionaries:
expect
VERB
[WITH OBJECT]
Regard (something) as likely to happen.
‘it's as well to expect the worst’
[with object and infinitive] ‘the hearing is expected to last a week’
[with clause] ‘one might expect that Hollywood would adjust its approach’
1.1 Regard (someone) as likely to do or be something.
[with object and infinitive] ‘they were not expecting him to continue’
1.2 Believe that (someone or something) will arrive soon.
‘Celia was expecting a visitor’
1.3 Require (something) as rightfully due or appropriate in the circumstances.
‘we expect great things of you’
1.4 Require (someone) to fulfil an obligation.
[with object and infinitive] ‘we expect employers to pay a reasonable salary’
1.5 (I expect) informal Used to indicate that one supposes something to be so but has no firm evidence.
‘they're just friends of his, I expect’
[with clause] ‘I expect you know them?’
Note especially definition 1.5 -- this is the version you used.
So what you're really saying is my expectation is that there will be bears [in the cave].
answered Oct 23 '18 at 20:43
Roger SinasohnRoger Sinasohn
9,80212050
answered Oct 23 '18 at 20:43
Roger SinasohnRoger Sinasohn
9,80212050
answered Oct 23 '18 at 20:43
Roger SinasohnRoger Sinasohn
9,80212050
answered Oct 23 '18 at 20:43
Roger SinasohnRoger Sinasohn
9,80212050
9,80212050
Thanks Roger! This only helped answer one of my questions, though (I know, multi-part questions can be rather tedious). I know what I'm saying, as in what the sentence means, I just don't really know why it can be written like that (along with all my questions about "there" and "to be"). Thanks for help on the "expect" part though!
– Gwendolyn
Oct 23 '18 at 21:29
add a comment |
Thanks Roger! This only helped answer one of my questions, though (I know, multi-part questions can be rather tedious). I know what I'm saying, as in what the sentence means, I just don't really know why it can be written like that (along with all my questions about "there" and "to be"). Thanks for help on the "expect" part though!
– Gwendolyn
Oct 23 '18 at 21:29
Thanks Roger! This only helped answer one of my questions, though (I know, multi-part questions can be rather tedious). I know what I'm saying, as in what the sentence means, I just don't really know why it can be written like that (along with all my questions about "there" and "to be"). Thanks for help on the "expect" part though!
– Gwendolyn
Oct 23 '18 at 21:29
Thanks Roger! This only helped answer one of my questions, though (I know, multi-part questions can be rather tedious). I know what I'm saying, as in what the sentence means, I just don't really know why it can be written like that (along with all my questions about "there" and "to be"). Thanks for help on the "expect" part though!
– Gwendolyn
Oct 23 '18 at 21:29
add a comment |
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It sounds normal to me—although perhaps not something that would be commonly said in casual conversation. (For that, there could be bears or I think there will be bears would more likely be heard.)
– Jason Bassford
Oct 23 '18 at 21:47
@JasonBassford That much I understand. Although, interesting, I intended the statement to be more of a " I won't go if there aren't bears" sort of thing. Sort of like if you were to tell a child "I expect you to be in bed by the time I get home."
– Gwendolyn
Oct 23 '18 at 21:58