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Does a random sequence of vectors span a Hilbert space?
Planned maintenance scheduled April 23, 2019 at 23:30 UTC (7:30pm US/Eastern)
Announcing the arrival of Valued Associate #679: Cesar Manara
Unicorn Meta Zoo #1: Why another podcast?Gaussian processes, sample paths and associated Hilbert space.non-Identity operator on a separable Hilbert spaceProhorov's theorem for random elements of Hilbert space: weak convergenceExistence of a complementary closed subspace extending a given subspaceBoundedness of a Hilbert space projection mapHow many times does a simple symmetric random walk of length n return to the origin?A homeomorphism between the unit interval $[0,1]$ and a linearly independent subset of a Hilbert spaceHoeffding's inequality for Hilbert space valued random elementsA formula related to the Moore-Penrose pseudo-inverse of Hilbert space operatorsA sequence of orthogonal projection in Hilbert space
$begingroup$
Let $mathcalH$ be a separable Hilbert space. Let $v$ be a random variable taking values in $mathcalH$ such that $P(v perp h) < 1$ for all $h in mathcalH.$ Suppose we sample an infinite sequence $v_1, v_2, ldots.$ Is it the case that, almost surely, the closed span of $v_1, v_2, ldots$ is all of $mathcalH?$
reference-request fa.functional-analysis pr.probability operator-theory hilbert-spaces
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|
show 4 more comments
$begingroup$
Let $mathcalH$ be a separable Hilbert space. Let $v$ be a random variable taking values in $mathcalH$ such that $P(v perp h) < 1$ for all $h in mathcalH.$ Suppose we sample an infinite sequence $v_1, v_2, ldots.$ Is it the case that, almost surely, the closed span of $v_1, v_2, ldots$ is all of $mathcalH?$
reference-request fa.functional-analysis pr.probability operator-theory hilbert-spaces
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
and if they are iid the probability of being in a closed hyperplane $(h)^perp$ is $P(v_kperp h, k=1,2,dots)=0$
$endgroup$
– Pietro Majer
6 hours ago
3
$begingroup$
@Pietro Majer: this is the probability that the vectors all lie in a given closed hyperplane.
$endgroup$
– Anthony Quas
6 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
Whoever voted to close this, I'm pretty sure you don't understand the question. This is subtle and interesting.
$endgroup$
– Anthony Quas
6 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
Maybe I'm missing something obvious, but is it even clear that the event you are interested in is measurable?
$endgroup$
– Jochen Glueck
6 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@JochenGlueck: Yes it's measurable: Let $(y_n)$ be a dense sequence in $mathcal H$. Then the event is: for all $m>0$, for all $n>0$, there exist $k>0$ and rational $t_1,ldots,t_k$ such that $|t_1v_1+ldots+t_kv_k-y_n|<1/m$.
$endgroup$
– Anthony Quas
4 hours ago
|
show 4 more comments
$begingroup$
Let $mathcalH$ be a separable Hilbert space. Let $v$ be a random variable taking values in $mathcalH$ such that $P(v perp h) < 1$ for all $h in mathcalH.$ Suppose we sample an infinite sequence $v_1, v_2, ldots.$ Is it the case that, almost surely, the closed span of $v_1, v_2, ldots$ is all of $mathcalH?$
reference-request fa.functional-analysis pr.probability operator-theory hilbert-spaces
$endgroup$
Let $mathcalH$ be a separable Hilbert space. Let $v$ be a random variable taking values in $mathcalH$ such that $P(v perp h) < 1$ for all $h in mathcalH.$ Suppose we sample an infinite sequence $v_1, v_2, ldots.$ Is it the case that, almost surely, the closed span of $v_1, v_2, ldots$ is all of $mathcalH?$
reference-request fa.functional-analysis pr.probability operator-theory hilbert-spaces
reference-request fa.functional-analysis pr.probability operator-theory hilbert-spaces
asked 7 hours ago
J. E. PascoeJ. E. Pascoe
570316
570316
$begingroup$
and if they are iid the probability of being in a closed hyperplane $(h)^perp$ is $P(v_kperp h, k=1,2,dots)=0$
$endgroup$
– Pietro Majer
6 hours ago
3
$begingroup$
@Pietro Majer: this is the probability that the vectors all lie in a given closed hyperplane.
$endgroup$
– Anthony Quas
6 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
Whoever voted to close this, I'm pretty sure you don't understand the question. This is subtle and interesting.
$endgroup$
– Anthony Quas
6 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
Maybe I'm missing something obvious, but is it even clear that the event you are interested in is measurable?
$endgroup$
– Jochen Glueck
6 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@JochenGlueck: Yes it's measurable: Let $(y_n)$ be a dense sequence in $mathcal H$. Then the event is: for all $m>0$, for all $n>0$, there exist $k>0$ and rational $t_1,ldots,t_k$ such that $|t_1v_1+ldots+t_kv_k-y_n|<1/m$.
$endgroup$
– Anthony Quas
4 hours ago
|
show 4 more comments
$begingroup$
and if they are iid the probability of being in a closed hyperplane $(h)^perp$ is $P(v_kperp h, k=1,2,dots)=0$
$endgroup$
– Pietro Majer
6 hours ago
3
$begingroup$
@Pietro Majer: this is the probability that the vectors all lie in a given closed hyperplane.
$endgroup$
– Anthony Quas
6 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
Whoever voted to close this, I'm pretty sure you don't understand the question. This is subtle and interesting.
$endgroup$
– Anthony Quas
6 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
Maybe I'm missing something obvious, but is it even clear that the event you are interested in is measurable?
$endgroup$
– Jochen Glueck
6 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@JochenGlueck: Yes it's measurable: Let $(y_n)$ be a dense sequence in $mathcal H$. Then the event is: for all $m>0$, for all $n>0$, there exist $k>0$ and rational $t_1,ldots,t_k$ such that $|t_1v_1+ldots+t_kv_k-y_n|<1/m$.
$endgroup$
– Anthony Quas
4 hours ago
$begingroup$
and if they are iid the probability of being in a closed hyperplane $(h)^perp$ is $P(v_kperp h, k=1,2,dots)=0$
$endgroup$
– Pietro Majer
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
and if they are iid the probability of being in a closed hyperplane $(h)^perp$ is $P(v_kperp h, k=1,2,dots)=0$
$endgroup$
– Pietro Majer
6 hours ago
3
3
$begingroup$
@Pietro Majer: this is the probability that the vectors all lie in a given closed hyperplane.
$endgroup$
– Anthony Quas
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Pietro Majer: this is the probability that the vectors all lie in a given closed hyperplane.
$endgroup$
– Anthony Quas
6 hours ago
2
2
$begingroup$
Whoever voted to close this, I'm pretty sure you don't understand the question. This is subtle and interesting.
$endgroup$
– Anthony Quas
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
Whoever voted to close this, I'm pretty sure you don't understand the question. This is subtle and interesting.
$endgroup$
– Anthony Quas
6 hours ago
1
1
$begingroup$
Maybe I'm missing something obvious, but is it even clear that the event you are interested in is measurable?
$endgroup$
– Jochen Glueck
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
Maybe I'm missing something obvious, but is it even clear that the event you are interested in is measurable?
$endgroup$
– Jochen Glueck
6 hours ago
1
1
$begingroup$
@JochenGlueck: Yes it's measurable: Let $(y_n)$ be a dense sequence in $mathcal H$. Then the event is: for all $m>0$, for all $n>0$, there exist $k>0$ and rational $t_1,ldots,t_k$ such that $|t_1v_1+ldots+t_kv_k-y_n|<1/m$.
$endgroup$
– Anthony Quas
4 hours ago
$begingroup$
@JochenGlueck: Yes it's measurable: Let $(y_n)$ be a dense sequence in $mathcal H$. Then the event is: for all $m>0$, for all $n>0$, there exist $k>0$ and rational $t_1,ldots,t_k$ such that $|t_1v_1+ldots+t_kv_k-y_n|<1/m$.
$endgroup$
– Anthony Quas
4 hours ago
|
show 4 more comments
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
(This may turn out to be a simplified version of J. E. Pascoe's answer).
With probability one, the closure of the random set $V = v_1, v_2, ldots$ is equal to $operatornamesupp v$, the support of the distribution of $v$ ($operatornamesupp v$ is the set of those $h$ such that $P(v in B(h, varepsilon)) > 0$ for every $varepsilon > 0$).
For every $h$, we have $P(h perp v) < 1$, and therefore $h$ is not orthogonal to $operatornamesupp v$. It follows that the closed span of $operatornamesupp v$ is $mathcalH$.
It remains to note that the closed span of $V$ is the same as the closed span of the closure of $V$, equal to $operatornamesupp v$ with probability one.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Another Try
We say a $mathcalH$-valued random variable $h$ is a random vector if $P(h perp g)<1$ for all $gin mathcalH.$
If $h_1, h_2, ldots$ is a sequence independent identically distributed of random vectors,
then, almost surely, the closed span of the $h_i$ is equal to $mathcalH.$
First we will need a lemma.
Lemma 1
Let $h$ be a random vector.
There is a countable subset $A$ of $mathcalH$ such that the closed span of the elements of $A$ is equal to $mathcalH$
and for every point $ain A,$ $P(hin U)>0$ for any neighborhood $U$ of $a.$
Proof
For any subset $A$ such that for every point $ain A,$ $P(hin U)>0$ for any neighborhood $U$ of $a,$ and
the closed span of the elements of $A$ is not equal to $mathcalH,$
we will show that we can grow $A$ by a single element which is not in closed span of the elements of $A.$
We can only do this a countable number of times because the Hilbert space dimension of $mathcalH$ is countable.
(Otherwise, via Gram-Schmidt, we could construct an uncountable orthonormal set by transfinite induction.)
Choose $g$ such that $g perp a$ for all $ain A.$ Now, $P(h perp g)<1.$ So there must be a point $b$ such that
$P(hin U) >0$ for every neighborhood of $b$ and $b$ is not perpendicular to $g,$ therefore, $b$ is not in the span of the elements of $A.$ QED
Suppose $h_1, h_2, ldots$ is a sequence independent identically distributed of random vectors.
Let $A$ be as in Lemma 1. Index $A$ a a sequence $a_n.$
Let $B_m,n$ be a ball of radius $1/m$ centered at $a_n$
Almost surely, the sequence $h_i$ must visit $B_m,n$ infinitely often,
as $P(h_iin B_m,n)>0$. Therefore $A$ is a subset of the closure of the values of the sequence. (We have essentially the fact that a random function $f:mathbbNrightarrow mathbbN^2$ is surjective with infinite multiplicity.)
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
The point is that you "keep going" by transfinite induction. The process must stop at some countable ordinal before $omega_1$ as the space is countable dimensional.
$endgroup$
– J. E. Pascoe
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
That is for each $alpha < omega_1$ there would be $A_alpha$ such that if $alpha < beta,$ $A_alpha^perp cap A_beta neq 0.$
$endgroup$
– J. E. Pascoe
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
"Let $A$ be as in Lemma 1" ... "we may take $A$ to consist of only isolated points, as in a Polish space a countable closed set is equal to the closure of its isolated points." But Lemma 1 does not guarantee that $A$ is closed.
$endgroup$
– Iosif Pinelis
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
That does seem to be a gap @IosifPinelis . Ideas for closing it?
$endgroup$
– J. E. Pascoe
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
Could you elaborate a bit further on why the set $A$ in Lemma 1 is countable? Of course, there exist linearly independent sets in $H$ that are uncountable -- just choose your favourite Hamel basis of $H$.
$endgroup$
– Jochen Glueck
3 hours ago
|
show 8 more comments
Your Answer
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2 Answers
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2 Answers
2
active
oldest
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$begingroup$
(This may turn out to be a simplified version of J. E. Pascoe's answer).
With probability one, the closure of the random set $V = v_1, v_2, ldots$ is equal to $operatornamesupp v$, the support of the distribution of $v$ ($operatornamesupp v$ is the set of those $h$ such that $P(v in B(h, varepsilon)) > 0$ for every $varepsilon > 0$).
For every $h$, we have $P(h perp v) < 1$, and therefore $h$ is not orthogonal to $operatornamesupp v$. It follows that the closed span of $operatornamesupp v$ is $mathcalH$.
It remains to note that the closed span of $V$ is the same as the closed span of the closure of $V$, equal to $operatornamesupp v$ with probability one.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
(This may turn out to be a simplified version of J. E. Pascoe's answer).
With probability one, the closure of the random set $V = v_1, v_2, ldots$ is equal to $operatornamesupp v$, the support of the distribution of $v$ ($operatornamesupp v$ is the set of those $h$ such that $P(v in B(h, varepsilon)) > 0$ for every $varepsilon > 0$).
For every $h$, we have $P(h perp v) < 1$, and therefore $h$ is not orthogonal to $operatornamesupp v$. It follows that the closed span of $operatornamesupp v$ is $mathcalH$.
It remains to note that the closed span of $V$ is the same as the closed span of the closure of $V$, equal to $operatornamesupp v$ with probability one.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
(This may turn out to be a simplified version of J. E. Pascoe's answer).
With probability one, the closure of the random set $V = v_1, v_2, ldots$ is equal to $operatornamesupp v$, the support of the distribution of $v$ ($operatornamesupp v$ is the set of those $h$ such that $P(v in B(h, varepsilon)) > 0$ for every $varepsilon > 0$).
For every $h$, we have $P(h perp v) < 1$, and therefore $h$ is not orthogonal to $operatornamesupp v$. It follows that the closed span of $operatornamesupp v$ is $mathcalH$.
It remains to note that the closed span of $V$ is the same as the closed span of the closure of $V$, equal to $operatornamesupp v$ with probability one.
$endgroup$
(This may turn out to be a simplified version of J. E. Pascoe's answer).
With probability one, the closure of the random set $V = v_1, v_2, ldots$ is equal to $operatornamesupp v$, the support of the distribution of $v$ ($operatornamesupp v$ is the set of those $h$ such that $P(v in B(h, varepsilon)) > 0$ for every $varepsilon > 0$).
For every $h$, we have $P(h perp v) < 1$, and therefore $h$ is not orthogonal to $operatornamesupp v$. It follows that the closed span of $operatornamesupp v$ is $mathcalH$.
It remains to note that the closed span of $V$ is the same as the closed span of the closure of $V$, equal to $operatornamesupp v$ with probability one.
answered 1 hour ago
Mateusz KwaśnickiMateusz Kwaśnicki
4,7421619
4,7421619
add a comment |
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Another Try
We say a $mathcalH$-valued random variable $h$ is a random vector if $P(h perp g)<1$ for all $gin mathcalH.$
If $h_1, h_2, ldots$ is a sequence independent identically distributed of random vectors,
then, almost surely, the closed span of the $h_i$ is equal to $mathcalH.$
First we will need a lemma.
Lemma 1
Let $h$ be a random vector.
There is a countable subset $A$ of $mathcalH$ such that the closed span of the elements of $A$ is equal to $mathcalH$
and for every point $ain A,$ $P(hin U)>0$ for any neighborhood $U$ of $a.$
Proof
For any subset $A$ such that for every point $ain A,$ $P(hin U)>0$ for any neighborhood $U$ of $a,$ and
the closed span of the elements of $A$ is not equal to $mathcalH,$
we will show that we can grow $A$ by a single element which is not in closed span of the elements of $A.$
We can only do this a countable number of times because the Hilbert space dimension of $mathcalH$ is countable.
(Otherwise, via Gram-Schmidt, we could construct an uncountable orthonormal set by transfinite induction.)
Choose $g$ such that $g perp a$ for all $ain A.$ Now, $P(h perp g)<1.$ So there must be a point $b$ such that
$P(hin U) >0$ for every neighborhood of $b$ and $b$ is not perpendicular to $g,$ therefore, $b$ is not in the span of the elements of $A.$ QED
Suppose $h_1, h_2, ldots$ is a sequence independent identically distributed of random vectors.
Let $A$ be as in Lemma 1. Index $A$ a a sequence $a_n.$
Let $B_m,n$ be a ball of radius $1/m$ centered at $a_n$
Almost surely, the sequence $h_i$ must visit $B_m,n$ infinitely often,
as $P(h_iin B_m,n)>0$. Therefore $A$ is a subset of the closure of the values of the sequence. (We have essentially the fact that a random function $f:mathbbNrightarrow mathbbN^2$ is surjective with infinite multiplicity.)
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
The point is that you "keep going" by transfinite induction. The process must stop at some countable ordinal before $omega_1$ as the space is countable dimensional.
$endgroup$
– J. E. Pascoe
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
That is for each $alpha < omega_1$ there would be $A_alpha$ such that if $alpha < beta,$ $A_alpha^perp cap A_beta neq 0.$
$endgroup$
– J. E. Pascoe
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
"Let $A$ be as in Lemma 1" ... "we may take $A$ to consist of only isolated points, as in a Polish space a countable closed set is equal to the closure of its isolated points." But Lemma 1 does not guarantee that $A$ is closed.
$endgroup$
– Iosif Pinelis
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
That does seem to be a gap @IosifPinelis . Ideas for closing it?
$endgroup$
– J. E. Pascoe
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
Could you elaborate a bit further on why the set $A$ in Lemma 1 is countable? Of course, there exist linearly independent sets in $H$ that are uncountable -- just choose your favourite Hamel basis of $H$.
$endgroup$
– Jochen Glueck
3 hours ago
|
show 8 more comments
$begingroup$
Another Try
We say a $mathcalH$-valued random variable $h$ is a random vector if $P(h perp g)<1$ for all $gin mathcalH.$
If $h_1, h_2, ldots$ is a sequence independent identically distributed of random vectors,
then, almost surely, the closed span of the $h_i$ is equal to $mathcalH.$
First we will need a lemma.
Lemma 1
Let $h$ be a random vector.
There is a countable subset $A$ of $mathcalH$ such that the closed span of the elements of $A$ is equal to $mathcalH$
and for every point $ain A,$ $P(hin U)>0$ for any neighborhood $U$ of $a.$
Proof
For any subset $A$ such that for every point $ain A,$ $P(hin U)>0$ for any neighborhood $U$ of $a,$ and
the closed span of the elements of $A$ is not equal to $mathcalH,$
we will show that we can grow $A$ by a single element which is not in closed span of the elements of $A.$
We can only do this a countable number of times because the Hilbert space dimension of $mathcalH$ is countable.
(Otherwise, via Gram-Schmidt, we could construct an uncountable orthonormal set by transfinite induction.)
Choose $g$ such that $g perp a$ for all $ain A.$ Now, $P(h perp g)<1.$ So there must be a point $b$ such that
$P(hin U) >0$ for every neighborhood of $b$ and $b$ is not perpendicular to $g,$ therefore, $b$ is not in the span of the elements of $A.$ QED
Suppose $h_1, h_2, ldots$ is a sequence independent identically distributed of random vectors.
Let $A$ be as in Lemma 1. Index $A$ a a sequence $a_n.$
Let $B_m,n$ be a ball of radius $1/m$ centered at $a_n$
Almost surely, the sequence $h_i$ must visit $B_m,n$ infinitely often,
as $P(h_iin B_m,n)>0$. Therefore $A$ is a subset of the closure of the values of the sequence. (We have essentially the fact that a random function $f:mathbbNrightarrow mathbbN^2$ is surjective with infinite multiplicity.)
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
The point is that you "keep going" by transfinite induction. The process must stop at some countable ordinal before $omega_1$ as the space is countable dimensional.
$endgroup$
– J. E. Pascoe
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
That is for each $alpha < omega_1$ there would be $A_alpha$ such that if $alpha < beta,$ $A_alpha^perp cap A_beta neq 0.$
$endgroup$
– J. E. Pascoe
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
"Let $A$ be as in Lemma 1" ... "we may take $A$ to consist of only isolated points, as in a Polish space a countable closed set is equal to the closure of its isolated points." But Lemma 1 does not guarantee that $A$ is closed.
$endgroup$
– Iosif Pinelis
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
That does seem to be a gap @IosifPinelis . Ideas for closing it?
$endgroup$
– J. E. Pascoe
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
Could you elaborate a bit further on why the set $A$ in Lemma 1 is countable? Of course, there exist linearly independent sets in $H$ that are uncountable -- just choose your favourite Hamel basis of $H$.
$endgroup$
– Jochen Glueck
3 hours ago
|
show 8 more comments
$begingroup$
Another Try
We say a $mathcalH$-valued random variable $h$ is a random vector if $P(h perp g)<1$ for all $gin mathcalH.$
If $h_1, h_2, ldots$ is a sequence independent identically distributed of random vectors,
then, almost surely, the closed span of the $h_i$ is equal to $mathcalH.$
First we will need a lemma.
Lemma 1
Let $h$ be a random vector.
There is a countable subset $A$ of $mathcalH$ such that the closed span of the elements of $A$ is equal to $mathcalH$
and for every point $ain A,$ $P(hin U)>0$ for any neighborhood $U$ of $a.$
Proof
For any subset $A$ such that for every point $ain A,$ $P(hin U)>0$ for any neighborhood $U$ of $a,$ and
the closed span of the elements of $A$ is not equal to $mathcalH,$
we will show that we can grow $A$ by a single element which is not in closed span of the elements of $A.$
We can only do this a countable number of times because the Hilbert space dimension of $mathcalH$ is countable.
(Otherwise, via Gram-Schmidt, we could construct an uncountable orthonormal set by transfinite induction.)
Choose $g$ such that $g perp a$ for all $ain A.$ Now, $P(h perp g)<1.$ So there must be a point $b$ such that
$P(hin U) >0$ for every neighborhood of $b$ and $b$ is not perpendicular to $g,$ therefore, $b$ is not in the span of the elements of $A.$ QED
Suppose $h_1, h_2, ldots$ is a sequence independent identically distributed of random vectors.
Let $A$ be as in Lemma 1. Index $A$ a a sequence $a_n.$
Let $B_m,n$ be a ball of radius $1/m$ centered at $a_n$
Almost surely, the sequence $h_i$ must visit $B_m,n$ infinitely often,
as $P(h_iin B_m,n)>0$. Therefore $A$ is a subset of the closure of the values of the sequence. (We have essentially the fact that a random function $f:mathbbNrightarrow mathbbN^2$ is surjective with infinite multiplicity.)
$endgroup$
Another Try
We say a $mathcalH$-valued random variable $h$ is a random vector if $P(h perp g)<1$ for all $gin mathcalH.$
If $h_1, h_2, ldots$ is a sequence independent identically distributed of random vectors,
then, almost surely, the closed span of the $h_i$ is equal to $mathcalH.$
First we will need a lemma.
Lemma 1
Let $h$ be a random vector.
There is a countable subset $A$ of $mathcalH$ such that the closed span of the elements of $A$ is equal to $mathcalH$
and for every point $ain A,$ $P(hin U)>0$ for any neighborhood $U$ of $a.$
Proof
For any subset $A$ such that for every point $ain A,$ $P(hin U)>0$ for any neighborhood $U$ of $a,$ and
the closed span of the elements of $A$ is not equal to $mathcalH,$
we will show that we can grow $A$ by a single element which is not in closed span of the elements of $A.$
We can only do this a countable number of times because the Hilbert space dimension of $mathcalH$ is countable.
(Otherwise, via Gram-Schmidt, we could construct an uncountable orthonormal set by transfinite induction.)
Choose $g$ such that $g perp a$ for all $ain A.$ Now, $P(h perp g)<1.$ So there must be a point $b$ such that
$P(hin U) >0$ for every neighborhood of $b$ and $b$ is not perpendicular to $g,$ therefore, $b$ is not in the span of the elements of $A.$ QED
Suppose $h_1, h_2, ldots$ is a sequence independent identically distributed of random vectors.
Let $A$ be as in Lemma 1. Index $A$ a a sequence $a_n.$
Let $B_m,n$ be a ball of radius $1/m$ centered at $a_n$
Almost surely, the sequence $h_i$ must visit $B_m,n$ infinitely often,
as $P(h_iin B_m,n)>0$. Therefore $A$ is a subset of the closure of the values of the sequence. (We have essentially the fact that a random function $f:mathbbNrightarrow mathbbN^2$ is surjective with infinite multiplicity.)
edited 2 hours ago
answered 3 hours ago
J. E. PascoeJ. E. Pascoe
570316
570316
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The point is that you "keep going" by transfinite induction. The process must stop at some countable ordinal before $omega_1$ as the space is countable dimensional.
$endgroup$
– J. E. Pascoe
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
That is for each $alpha < omega_1$ there would be $A_alpha$ such that if $alpha < beta,$ $A_alpha^perp cap A_beta neq 0.$
$endgroup$
– J. E. Pascoe
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
"Let $A$ be as in Lemma 1" ... "we may take $A$ to consist of only isolated points, as in a Polish space a countable closed set is equal to the closure of its isolated points." But Lemma 1 does not guarantee that $A$ is closed.
$endgroup$
– Iosif Pinelis
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
That does seem to be a gap @IosifPinelis . Ideas for closing it?
$endgroup$
– J. E. Pascoe
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
Could you elaborate a bit further on why the set $A$ in Lemma 1 is countable? Of course, there exist linearly independent sets in $H$ that are uncountable -- just choose your favourite Hamel basis of $H$.
$endgroup$
– Jochen Glueck
3 hours ago
|
show 8 more comments
$begingroup$
The point is that you "keep going" by transfinite induction. The process must stop at some countable ordinal before $omega_1$ as the space is countable dimensional.
$endgroup$
– J. E. Pascoe
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
That is for each $alpha < omega_1$ there would be $A_alpha$ such that if $alpha < beta,$ $A_alpha^perp cap A_beta neq 0.$
$endgroup$
– J. E. Pascoe
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
"Let $A$ be as in Lemma 1" ... "we may take $A$ to consist of only isolated points, as in a Polish space a countable closed set is equal to the closure of its isolated points." But Lemma 1 does not guarantee that $A$ is closed.
$endgroup$
– Iosif Pinelis
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
That does seem to be a gap @IosifPinelis . Ideas for closing it?
$endgroup$
– J. E. Pascoe
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
Could you elaborate a bit further on why the set $A$ in Lemma 1 is countable? Of course, there exist linearly independent sets in $H$ that are uncountable -- just choose your favourite Hamel basis of $H$.
$endgroup$
– Jochen Glueck
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
The point is that you "keep going" by transfinite induction. The process must stop at some countable ordinal before $omega_1$ as the space is countable dimensional.
$endgroup$
– J. E. Pascoe
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
The point is that you "keep going" by transfinite induction. The process must stop at some countable ordinal before $omega_1$ as the space is countable dimensional.
$endgroup$
– J. E. Pascoe
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
That is for each $alpha < omega_1$ there would be $A_alpha$ such that if $alpha < beta,$ $A_alpha^perp cap A_beta neq 0.$
$endgroup$
– J. E. Pascoe
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
That is for each $alpha < omega_1$ there would be $A_alpha$ such that if $alpha < beta,$ $A_alpha^perp cap A_beta neq 0.$
$endgroup$
– J. E. Pascoe
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
"Let $A$ be as in Lemma 1" ... "we may take $A$ to consist of only isolated points, as in a Polish space a countable closed set is equal to the closure of its isolated points." But Lemma 1 does not guarantee that $A$ is closed.
$endgroup$
– Iosif Pinelis
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
"Let $A$ be as in Lemma 1" ... "we may take $A$ to consist of only isolated points, as in a Polish space a countable closed set is equal to the closure of its isolated points." But Lemma 1 does not guarantee that $A$ is closed.
$endgroup$
– Iosif Pinelis
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
That does seem to be a gap @IosifPinelis . Ideas for closing it?
$endgroup$
– J. E. Pascoe
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
That does seem to be a gap @IosifPinelis . Ideas for closing it?
$endgroup$
– J. E. Pascoe
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
Could you elaborate a bit further on why the set $A$ in Lemma 1 is countable? Of course, there exist linearly independent sets in $H$ that are uncountable -- just choose your favourite Hamel basis of $H$.
$endgroup$
– Jochen Glueck
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
Could you elaborate a bit further on why the set $A$ in Lemma 1 is countable? Of course, there exist linearly independent sets in $H$ that are uncountable -- just choose your favourite Hamel basis of $H$.
$endgroup$
– Jochen Glueck
3 hours ago
|
show 8 more comments
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$begingroup$
and if they are iid the probability of being in a closed hyperplane $(h)^perp$ is $P(v_kperp h, k=1,2,dots)=0$
$endgroup$
– Pietro Majer
6 hours ago
3
$begingroup$
@Pietro Majer: this is the probability that the vectors all lie in a given closed hyperplane.
$endgroup$
– Anthony Quas
6 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
Whoever voted to close this, I'm pretty sure you don't understand the question. This is subtle and interesting.
$endgroup$
– Anthony Quas
6 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
Maybe I'm missing something obvious, but is it even clear that the event you are interested in is measurable?
$endgroup$
– Jochen Glueck
6 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@JochenGlueck: Yes it's measurable: Let $(y_n)$ be a dense sequence in $mathcal H$. Then the event is: for all $m>0$, for all $n>0$, there exist $k>0$ and rational $t_1,ldots,t_k$ such that $|t_1v_1+ldots+t_kv_k-y_n|<1/m$.
$endgroup$
– Anthony Quas
4 hours ago