Why are there no cargo aircraft with “flying wing” design? Planned maintenance scheduled April 17/18, 2019 at 00:00UTC (8:00pm US/Eastern) Announcing the arrival of Valued Associate #679: Cesar Manara Unicorn Meta Zoo #1: Why another podcast?Why do aircraft models end their life as freighters?How many active large commercial airplanes are there?Why are there so few aircraft that had inhabited wings?Why are there no blended-wing passenger airplanes in operation?Does cargo heat failure require a diversion? What about if there are live animals in cargo?Why was the A380 built with a gull-wing design?Cargo aircraft temperatureWhy do some cargo aircraft have windows?How are large cargo aircraft loaded at airports?Are there any regulations preventing one from converting an originally cargo aircraft to ferry passengers?Are there any specific weight or structural reasons to choose low vs. high wings for a cargo aircraft?Why do cargo aircraft still have floors?Are cargo aircraft ever ferried empty?

What is this single-engine low-wing propeller plane?

How much radiation do nuclear physics experiments expose researchers to nowadays?

If 'B is more likely given A', then 'A is more likely given B'

What are the motives behind Cersei's orders given to Bronn?

How to do this path/lattice with tikz

Are my PIs rude or am I just being too sensitive?

Single word antonym of "flightless"

Is the address of a local variable a constexpr?

Disable hyphenation for an entire paragraph

Check which numbers satisfy the condition [A*B*C = A! + B! + C!]

When -s is used with third person singular. What's its use in this context?

How to motivate offshore teams and trust them to deliver?

How to bypass password on Windows XP account?

How do I stop a creek from eroding my steep embankment?

When to stop saving and start investing?

What's the difference between `auto x = vector<int>()` and `vector<int> x`?

I need to find the potential function of a vector field.

Stars Make Stars

Should I discuss the type of campaign with my players?

Storing hydrofluoric acid before the invention of plastics

What is the longest distance a 13th-level monk can jump while attacking on the same turn?

Is it ethical to give a final exam after the professor has quit before teaching the remaining chapters of the course?

Is there a concise way to say "all of the X, one of each"?

Diagram with tikz



Why are there no cargo aircraft with “flying wing” design?



Planned maintenance scheduled April 17/18, 2019 at 00:00UTC (8:00pm US/Eastern)
Announcing the arrival of Valued Associate #679: Cesar Manara
Unicorn Meta Zoo #1: Why another podcast?Why do aircraft models end their life as freighters?How many active large commercial airplanes are there?Why are there so few aircraft that had inhabited wings?Why are there no blended-wing passenger airplanes in operation?Does cargo heat failure require a diversion? What about if there are live animals in cargo?Why was the A380 built with a gull-wing design?Cargo aircraft temperatureWhy do some cargo aircraft have windows?How are large cargo aircraft loaded at airports?Are there any regulations preventing one from converting an originally cargo aircraft to ferry passengers?Are there any specific weight or structural reasons to choose low vs. high wings for a cargo aircraft?Why do cargo aircraft still have floors?Are cargo aircraft ever ferried empty?










9












$begingroup$


From that I have seen so far, the "flying wing" design (like the one of B-2 Spirit and Northrop YB-49) has superior performance but also a few notable problems that make it difficult to use for passenger aircraft:



  • It is difficult to control, and the YB-49 crashed even when flown by an elite test pilot. However, computer assistance has been implemented for B-2 and I do not think this is a problem any longer.

  • There are problems related just to the passenger transport: not enough windows, difficult to evacuate.

  • It also cannot be pressurized as easily as a cylinder but for a majority of possible cargo this is probably not a problem. Some cargo may not require pressurization at all and some may only need partial pressurization like in jet fighters.

Hence I understand that there are problems on the way to the flying wing passenger aircraft. However, why there are no cargo aircraft of this kind around?










share|improve this question









New contributor




h23 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.







$endgroup$











  • $begingroup$
    Very related: Why are there so few aircraft that had inhabited wings?
    $endgroup$
    – Peter Kämpf
    16 hours ago















9












$begingroup$


From that I have seen so far, the "flying wing" design (like the one of B-2 Spirit and Northrop YB-49) has superior performance but also a few notable problems that make it difficult to use for passenger aircraft:



  • It is difficult to control, and the YB-49 crashed even when flown by an elite test pilot. However, computer assistance has been implemented for B-2 and I do not think this is a problem any longer.

  • There are problems related just to the passenger transport: not enough windows, difficult to evacuate.

  • It also cannot be pressurized as easily as a cylinder but for a majority of possible cargo this is probably not a problem. Some cargo may not require pressurization at all and some may only need partial pressurization like in jet fighters.

Hence I understand that there are problems on the way to the flying wing passenger aircraft. However, why there are no cargo aircraft of this kind around?










share|improve this question









New contributor




h23 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.







$endgroup$











  • $begingroup$
    Very related: Why are there so few aircraft that had inhabited wings?
    $endgroup$
    – Peter Kämpf
    16 hours ago













9












9








9





$begingroup$


From that I have seen so far, the "flying wing" design (like the one of B-2 Spirit and Northrop YB-49) has superior performance but also a few notable problems that make it difficult to use for passenger aircraft:



  • It is difficult to control, and the YB-49 crashed even when flown by an elite test pilot. However, computer assistance has been implemented for B-2 and I do not think this is a problem any longer.

  • There are problems related just to the passenger transport: not enough windows, difficult to evacuate.

  • It also cannot be pressurized as easily as a cylinder but for a majority of possible cargo this is probably not a problem. Some cargo may not require pressurization at all and some may only need partial pressurization like in jet fighters.

Hence I understand that there are problems on the way to the flying wing passenger aircraft. However, why there are no cargo aircraft of this kind around?










share|improve this question









New contributor




h23 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.







$endgroup$




From that I have seen so far, the "flying wing" design (like the one of B-2 Spirit and Northrop YB-49) has superior performance but also a few notable problems that make it difficult to use for passenger aircraft:



  • It is difficult to control, and the YB-49 crashed even when flown by an elite test pilot. However, computer assistance has been implemented for B-2 and I do not think this is a problem any longer.

  • There are problems related just to the passenger transport: not enough windows, difficult to evacuate.

  • It also cannot be pressurized as easily as a cylinder but for a majority of possible cargo this is probably not a problem. Some cargo may not require pressurization at all and some may only need partial pressurization like in jet fighters.

Hence I understand that there are problems on the way to the flying wing passenger aircraft. However, why there are no cargo aircraft of this kind around?







aircraft-design cargo blended-wing






share|improve this question









New contributor




h23 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.











share|improve this question









New contributor




h23 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.









share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited 7 hours ago









fooot

54.5k18174329




54.5k18174329






New contributor




h23 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.









asked 17 hours ago









h23h23

5115




5115




New contributor




h23 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.





New contributor





h23 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.






h23 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.











  • $begingroup$
    Very related: Why are there so few aircraft that had inhabited wings?
    $endgroup$
    – Peter Kämpf
    16 hours ago
















  • $begingroup$
    Very related: Why are there so few aircraft that had inhabited wings?
    $endgroup$
    – Peter Kämpf
    16 hours ago















$begingroup$
Very related: Why are there so few aircraft that had inhabited wings?
$endgroup$
– Peter Kämpf
16 hours ago




$begingroup$
Very related: Why are there so few aircraft that had inhabited wings?
$endgroup$
– Peter Kämpf
16 hours ago










5 Answers
5






active

oldest

votes


















17












$begingroup$

Flying wings can be made to have acceptable flying qualities without any artificial assistance. Just look at the Jim Marske glider designs.



The principal downfall of flying wings is that stability in pitch is pretty much achieved the same way as with a conventional tail, with a down force balancing out the center of gravity forward of the fulcrum of the center of lift, but it's all being done over the very short moment arm of the wing chord itself. In other words the "tail" has been moved forward to the trailing edge of the main wing.



There are a lot of issues that result from this, pitch sensitivity and damping issues and all that, but the biggest one from a cargo aircraft's perspective is a very narrow center of gravity range. Not a big deal on a bomber with a concentrated bomb bay load, or a glider that doesn't have to cope with loading variations, but a bigger deal on a freighter. You are forced to spread the load, and the fuselage volume, laterally, creating way more frontal area than necessary (you're in effect turning the fuselage sideways), so you end up cancelling out the drag benefit of doing away with the tail in the first place, and still end up with a "temperamental" configuration.



enter image description here






share|improve this answer











$endgroup$








  • 2




    $begingroup$
    Admittedly, without a long fuselage there will not be much length along which the cargo can be distributed. I'd call it a wash.
    $endgroup$
    – Peter Kämpf
    11 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    That's what I meant by having to spread the loading laterally. But even within the space envelope you would have just within a flying wing stump fuselage or center section, the available loading range is pretty narrow. Bring your knees to your chest in a FW glider, where the allowable range is couple of inches, and you might find yourself aft of the rear limit.
    $endgroup$
    – John K
    8 hours ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    most excellent explanation!
    $endgroup$
    – niels nielsen
    4 hours ago


















12












$begingroup$

Cargo aircraft (outside the military) almost always started life as passenger aircraft. The ratio of active large cargo aircraft to passenger aircraft is in the single percentages. Therefore, nobody develops a pure cargo aircraft from scratch.



That does not mean that no one has tried. Especially for cargo, large flying wings have been proposed which store their cargo in containers along the wingspan - hence their name: Spanloaders. Below is an artist impression from the 1970s.



Boeing Model 759-159 distributed load freighter concept from the 1970s



Boeing Model 759-159 distributed load freighter concept from the 1970s (picture source)






share|improve this answer











$endgroup$








  • 4




    $begingroup$
    And to the military, soldiers are just another kind of cargo.
    $endgroup$
    – jamesqf
    12 hours ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Where would that thing park?
    $endgroup$
    – Azor Ahai
    11 hours ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Not at the airport it's flying over, certainly...
    $endgroup$
    – Roger Lipscombe
    11 hours ago






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    Perhaps it doesn't park, or even land - just flies endlessly while smaller craft ferry fuel and cargo between it and the ground.
    $endgroup$
    – Skyler
    9 hours ago


















4












$begingroup$

For a start, with what it costs to design and certificate a new aircraft type, if a transport craft can't be reconfigured to carry either passengers or freight it won't make it off the napkin. The conventional transports we have can be switched from cargo to passenger and back, some in just a few hours. For a non-passenger transport to compete, it would have to be much cheaper (to buy and to operate) than a multi-purpose airframe.






share|improve this answer









$endgroup$




















    3












    $begingroup$

    In addition to the other answers, a reason for the lack of flying wings in civil aviation in general is that they need to compete in an environment that has grown alongside conventional, fuselage-and-wings aircraft and is ill-suited for flying wings.



    This means they need to use the same airports (turning radii, RWY widths), fit into the same parking envelopes (wingspan) and be serviced by the same ground vehicles (bay heights, wing clearances). Because redesigning an entire industry worth of ancillary equipment and infrastructure has been deemed not worth the minor efficiency gains to be had from flying wings.






    share|improve this answer









    $endgroup$












    • $begingroup$
      and the extremely conservative attitude of the people making purchasing decisions, that makes it very hard to get even things that look or sound a bit different from the established norm from getting adopted (think the Boeing Sonic Cruiser concept, or the Beechcraft 2000, as prime examples).
      $endgroup$
      – jwenting
      57 mins ago


















    2












    $begingroup$

    It's all about CG range and how much abuse the design can take. Take a look at the C-130 Hercules. It has a huge Hstab to cope with a wide range of CG. Really a bi-plane. So is the Chinook helicopter. Holding the table up with 4 legs (6 with a canard).



    So, what do we do to get to a viable flying wing? Sweep back offers improvement in pitch stability as (with washout) you lengthen the aircraft. Control surfaces can be placed at the wing tips. Reflexed camber airfoils also help. How to cope the loss of a longer fuselage/Hstab pitch torque arm? Have the cargo bay set on a roller at CG.
    Pull it forward until it tips. Secure, cargo balanced! Fuel tanks can be arranged to drain evenly. Assuming a subsonic design with near neutral static stability, it may even fly without computers.



    But the all important shift in Clift with change in AOA or airspeed must be accounted for.
    So a small tail, like birds have, may help build a better safety margin for the design, with or without computers. Ditto for lower aspect wings. Interestingly, a bird sweeping its wings back becomes ... a delta. Sweep them back out ... an F-111?



    It is possible to reduce tail size in cargo, and passenger planes.






    share|improve this answer











    $endgroup$













      Your Answer








      StackExchange.ready(function()
      var channelOptions =
      tags: "".split(" "),
      id: "528"
      ;
      initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);

      StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function()
      // Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
      if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled)
      StackExchange.using("snippets", function()
      createEditor();
      );

      else
      createEditor();

      );

      function createEditor()
      StackExchange.prepareEditor(
      heartbeatType: 'answer',
      autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
      convertImagesToLinks: false,
      noModals: true,
      showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
      reputationToPostImages: null,
      bindNavPrevention: true,
      postfix: "",
      imageUploader:
      brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
      contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
      allowUrls: true
      ,
      noCode: true, onDemand: true,
      discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
      ,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
      );



      );






      h23 is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.









      draft saved

      draft discarded


















      StackExchange.ready(
      function ()
      StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2faviation.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f62377%2fwhy-are-there-no-cargo-aircraft-with-flying-wing-design%23new-answer', 'question_page');

      );

      Post as a guest















      Required, but never shown

























      5 Answers
      5






      active

      oldest

      votes








      5 Answers
      5






      active

      oldest

      votes









      active

      oldest

      votes






      active

      oldest

      votes









      17












      $begingroup$

      Flying wings can be made to have acceptable flying qualities without any artificial assistance. Just look at the Jim Marske glider designs.



      The principal downfall of flying wings is that stability in pitch is pretty much achieved the same way as with a conventional tail, with a down force balancing out the center of gravity forward of the fulcrum of the center of lift, but it's all being done over the very short moment arm of the wing chord itself. In other words the "tail" has been moved forward to the trailing edge of the main wing.



      There are a lot of issues that result from this, pitch sensitivity and damping issues and all that, but the biggest one from a cargo aircraft's perspective is a very narrow center of gravity range. Not a big deal on a bomber with a concentrated bomb bay load, or a glider that doesn't have to cope with loading variations, but a bigger deal on a freighter. You are forced to spread the load, and the fuselage volume, laterally, creating way more frontal area than necessary (you're in effect turning the fuselage sideways), so you end up cancelling out the drag benefit of doing away with the tail in the first place, and still end up with a "temperamental" configuration.



      enter image description here






      share|improve this answer











      $endgroup$








      • 2




        $begingroup$
        Admittedly, without a long fuselage there will not be much length along which the cargo can be distributed. I'd call it a wash.
        $endgroup$
        – Peter Kämpf
        11 hours ago










      • $begingroup$
        That's what I meant by having to spread the loading laterally. But even within the space envelope you would have just within a flying wing stump fuselage or center section, the available loading range is pretty narrow. Bring your knees to your chest in a FW glider, where the allowable range is couple of inches, and you might find yourself aft of the rear limit.
        $endgroup$
        – John K
        8 hours ago






      • 1




        $begingroup$
        most excellent explanation!
        $endgroup$
        – niels nielsen
        4 hours ago















      17












      $begingroup$

      Flying wings can be made to have acceptable flying qualities without any artificial assistance. Just look at the Jim Marske glider designs.



      The principal downfall of flying wings is that stability in pitch is pretty much achieved the same way as with a conventional tail, with a down force balancing out the center of gravity forward of the fulcrum of the center of lift, but it's all being done over the very short moment arm of the wing chord itself. In other words the "tail" has been moved forward to the trailing edge of the main wing.



      There are a lot of issues that result from this, pitch sensitivity and damping issues and all that, but the biggest one from a cargo aircraft's perspective is a very narrow center of gravity range. Not a big deal on a bomber with a concentrated bomb bay load, or a glider that doesn't have to cope with loading variations, but a bigger deal on a freighter. You are forced to spread the load, and the fuselage volume, laterally, creating way more frontal area than necessary (you're in effect turning the fuselage sideways), so you end up cancelling out the drag benefit of doing away with the tail in the first place, and still end up with a "temperamental" configuration.



      enter image description here






      share|improve this answer











      $endgroup$








      • 2




        $begingroup$
        Admittedly, without a long fuselage there will not be much length along which the cargo can be distributed. I'd call it a wash.
        $endgroup$
        – Peter Kämpf
        11 hours ago










      • $begingroup$
        That's what I meant by having to spread the loading laterally. But even within the space envelope you would have just within a flying wing stump fuselage or center section, the available loading range is pretty narrow. Bring your knees to your chest in a FW glider, where the allowable range is couple of inches, and you might find yourself aft of the rear limit.
        $endgroup$
        – John K
        8 hours ago






      • 1




        $begingroup$
        most excellent explanation!
        $endgroup$
        – niels nielsen
        4 hours ago













      17












      17








      17





      $begingroup$

      Flying wings can be made to have acceptable flying qualities without any artificial assistance. Just look at the Jim Marske glider designs.



      The principal downfall of flying wings is that stability in pitch is pretty much achieved the same way as with a conventional tail, with a down force balancing out the center of gravity forward of the fulcrum of the center of lift, but it's all being done over the very short moment arm of the wing chord itself. In other words the "tail" has been moved forward to the trailing edge of the main wing.



      There are a lot of issues that result from this, pitch sensitivity and damping issues and all that, but the biggest one from a cargo aircraft's perspective is a very narrow center of gravity range. Not a big deal on a bomber with a concentrated bomb bay load, or a glider that doesn't have to cope with loading variations, but a bigger deal on a freighter. You are forced to spread the load, and the fuselage volume, laterally, creating way more frontal area than necessary (you're in effect turning the fuselage sideways), so you end up cancelling out the drag benefit of doing away with the tail in the first place, and still end up with a "temperamental" configuration.



      enter image description here






      share|improve this answer











      $endgroup$



      Flying wings can be made to have acceptable flying qualities without any artificial assistance. Just look at the Jim Marske glider designs.



      The principal downfall of flying wings is that stability in pitch is pretty much achieved the same way as with a conventional tail, with a down force balancing out the center of gravity forward of the fulcrum of the center of lift, but it's all being done over the very short moment arm of the wing chord itself. In other words the "tail" has been moved forward to the trailing edge of the main wing.



      There are a lot of issues that result from this, pitch sensitivity and damping issues and all that, but the biggest one from a cargo aircraft's perspective is a very narrow center of gravity range. Not a big deal on a bomber with a concentrated bomb bay load, or a glider that doesn't have to cope with loading variations, but a bigger deal on a freighter. You are forced to spread the load, and the fuselage volume, laterally, creating way more frontal area than necessary (you're in effect turning the fuselage sideways), so you end up cancelling out the drag benefit of doing away with the tail in the first place, and still end up with a "temperamental" configuration.



      enter image description here







      share|improve this answer














      share|improve this answer



      share|improve this answer








      edited 15 hours ago









      ymb1

      70.4k7226373




      70.4k7226373










      answered 16 hours ago









      John KJohn K

      25.5k13778




      25.5k13778







      • 2




        $begingroup$
        Admittedly, without a long fuselage there will not be much length along which the cargo can be distributed. I'd call it a wash.
        $endgroup$
        – Peter Kämpf
        11 hours ago










      • $begingroup$
        That's what I meant by having to spread the loading laterally. But even within the space envelope you would have just within a flying wing stump fuselage or center section, the available loading range is pretty narrow. Bring your knees to your chest in a FW glider, where the allowable range is couple of inches, and you might find yourself aft of the rear limit.
        $endgroup$
        – John K
        8 hours ago






      • 1




        $begingroup$
        most excellent explanation!
        $endgroup$
        – niels nielsen
        4 hours ago












      • 2




        $begingroup$
        Admittedly, without a long fuselage there will not be much length along which the cargo can be distributed. I'd call it a wash.
        $endgroup$
        – Peter Kämpf
        11 hours ago










      • $begingroup$
        That's what I meant by having to spread the loading laterally. But even within the space envelope you would have just within a flying wing stump fuselage or center section, the available loading range is pretty narrow. Bring your knees to your chest in a FW glider, where the allowable range is couple of inches, and you might find yourself aft of the rear limit.
        $endgroup$
        – John K
        8 hours ago






      • 1




        $begingroup$
        most excellent explanation!
        $endgroup$
        – niels nielsen
        4 hours ago







      2




      2




      $begingroup$
      Admittedly, without a long fuselage there will not be much length along which the cargo can be distributed. I'd call it a wash.
      $endgroup$
      – Peter Kämpf
      11 hours ago




      $begingroup$
      Admittedly, without a long fuselage there will not be much length along which the cargo can be distributed. I'd call it a wash.
      $endgroup$
      – Peter Kämpf
      11 hours ago












      $begingroup$
      That's what I meant by having to spread the loading laterally. But even within the space envelope you would have just within a flying wing stump fuselage or center section, the available loading range is pretty narrow. Bring your knees to your chest in a FW glider, where the allowable range is couple of inches, and you might find yourself aft of the rear limit.
      $endgroup$
      – John K
      8 hours ago




      $begingroup$
      That's what I meant by having to spread the loading laterally. But even within the space envelope you would have just within a flying wing stump fuselage or center section, the available loading range is pretty narrow. Bring your knees to your chest in a FW glider, where the allowable range is couple of inches, and you might find yourself aft of the rear limit.
      $endgroup$
      – John K
      8 hours ago




      1




      1




      $begingroup$
      most excellent explanation!
      $endgroup$
      – niels nielsen
      4 hours ago




      $begingroup$
      most excellent explanation!
      $endgroup$
      – niels nielsen
      4 hours ago











      12












      $begingroup$

      Cargo aircraft (outside the military) almost always started life as passenger aircraft. The ratio of active large cargo aircraft to passenger aircraft is in the single percentages. Therefore, nobody develops a pure cargo aircraft from scratch.



      That does not mean that no one has tried. Especially for cargo, large flying wings have been proposed which store their cargo in containers along the wingspan - hence their name: Spanloaders. Below is an artist impression from the 1970s.



      Boeing Model 759-159 distributed load freighter concept from the 1970s



      Boeing Model 759-159 distributed load freighter concept from the 1970s (picture source)






      share|improve this answer











      $endgroup$








      • 4




        $begingroup$
        And to the military, soldiers are just another kind of cargo.
        $endgroup$
        – jamesqf
        12 hours ago






      • 1




        $begingroup$
        Where would that thing park?
        $endgroup$
        – Azor Ahai
        11 hours ago






      • 1




        $begingroup$
        Not at the airport it's flying over, certainly...
        $endgroup$
        – Roger Lipscombe
        11 hours ago






      • 2




        $begingroup$
        Perhaps it doesn't park, or even land - just flies endlessly while smaller craft ferry fuel and cargo between it and the ground.
        $endgroup$
        – Skyler
        9 hours ago















      12












      $begingroup$

      Cargo aircraft (outside the military) almost always started life as passenger aircraft. The ratio of active large cargo aircraft to passenger aircraft is in the single percentages. Therefore, nobody develops a pure cargo aircraft from scratch.



      That does not mean that no one has tried. Especially for cargo, large flying wings have been proposed which store their cargo in containers along the wingspan - hence their name: Spanloaders. Below is an artist impression from the 1970s.



      Boeing Model 759-159 distributed load freighter concept from the 1970s



      Boeing Model 759-159 distributed load freighter concept from the 1970s (picture source)






      share|improve this answer











      $endgroup$








      • 4




        $begingroup$
        And to the military, soldiers are just another kind of cargo.
        $endgroup$
        – jamesqf
        12 hours ago






      • 1




        $begingroup$
        Where would that thing park?
        $endgroup$
        – Azor Ahai
        11 hours ago






      • 1




        $begingroup$
        Not at the airport it's flying over, certainly...
        $endgroup$
        – Roger Lipscombe
        11 hours ago






      • 2




        $begingroup$
        Perhaps it doesn't park, or even land - just flies endlessly while smaller craft ferry fuel and cargo between it and the ground.
        $endgroup$
        – Skyler
        9 hours ago













      12












      12








      12





      $begingroup$

      Cargo aircraft (outside the military) almost always started life as passenger aircraft. The ratio of active large cargo aircraft to passenger aircraft is in the single percentages. Therefore, nobody develops a pure cargo aircraft from scratch.



      That does not mean that no one has tried. Especially for cargo, large flying wings have been proposed which store their cargo in containers along the wingspan - hence their name: Spanloaders. Below is an artist impression from the 1970s.



      Boeing Model 759-159 distributed load freighter concept from the 1970s



      Boeing Model 759-159 distributed load freighter concept from the 1970s (picture source)






      share|improve this answer











      $endgroup$



      Cargo aircraft (outside the military) almost always started life as passenger aircraft. The ratio of active large cargo aircraft to passenger aircraft is in the single percentages. Therefore, nobody develops a pure cargo aircraft from scratch.



      That does not mean that no one has tried. Especially for cargo, large flying wings have been proposed which store their cargo in containers along the wingspan - hence their name: Spanloaders. Below is an artist impression from the 1970s.



      Boeing Model 759-159 distributed load freighter concept from the 1970s



      Boeing Model 759-159 distributed load freighter concept from the 1970s (picture source)







      share|improve this answer














      share|improve this answer



      share|improve this answer








      edited 5 hours ago









      Community

      1




      1










      answered 16 hours ago









      Peter KämpfPeter Kämpf

      162k12412658




      162k12412658







      • 4




        $begingroup$
        And to the military, soldiers are just another kind of cargo.
        $endgroup$
        – jamesqf
        12 hours ago






      • 1




        $begingroup$
        Where would that thing park?
        $endgroup$
        – Azor Ahai
        11 hours ago






      • 1




        $begingroup$
        Not at the airport it's flying over, certainly...
        $endgroup$
        – Roger Lipscombe
        11 hours ago






      • 2




        $begingroup$
        Perhaps it doesn't park, or even land - just flies endlessly while smaller craft ferry fuel and cargo between it and the ground.
        $endgroup$
        – Skyler
        9 hours ago












      • 4




        $begingroup$
        And to the military, soldiers are just another kind of cargo.
        $endgroup$
        – jamesqf
        12 hours ago






      • 1




        $begingroup$
        Where would that thing park?
        $endgroup$
        – Azor Ahai
        11 hours ago






      • 1




        $begingroup$
        Not at the airport it's flying over, certainly...
        $endgroup$
        – Roger Lipscombe
        11 hours ago






      • 2




        $begingroup$
        Perhaps it doesn't park, or even land - just flies endlessly while smaller craft ferry fuel and cargo between it and the ground.
        $endgroup$
        – Skyler
        9 hours ago







      4




      4




      $begingroup$
      And to the military, soldiers are just another kind of cargo.
      $endgroup$
      – jamesqf
      12 hours ago




      $begingroup$
      And to the military, soldiers are just another kind of cargo.
      $endgroup$
      – jamesqf
      12 hours ago




      1




      1




      $begingroup$
      Where would that thing park?
      $endgroup$
      – Azor Ahai
      11 hours ago




      $begingroup$
      Where would that thing park?
      $endgroup$
      – Azor Ahai
      11 hours ago




      1




      1




      $begingroup$
      Not at the airport it's flying over, certainly...
      $endgroup$
      – Roger Lipscombe
      11 hours ago




      $begingroup$
      Not at the airport it's flying over, certainly...
      $endgroup$
      – Roger Lipscombe
      11 hours ago




      2




      2




      $begingroup$
      Perhaps it doesn't park, or even land - just flies endlessly while smaller craft ferry fuel and cargo between it and the ground.
      $endgroup$
      – Skyler
      9 hours ago




      $begingroup$
      Perhaps it doesn't park, or even land - just flies endlessly while smaller craft ferry fuel and cargo between it and the ground.
      $endgroup$
      – Skyler
      9 hours ago











      4












      $begingroup$

      For a start, with what it costs to design and certificate a new aircraft type, if a transport craft can't be reconfigured to carry either passengers or freight it won't make it off the napkin. The conventional transports we have can be switched from cargo to passenger and back, some in just a few hours. For a non-passenger transport to compete, it would have to be much cheaper (to buy and to operate) than a multi-purpose airframe.






      share|improve this answer









      $endgroup$

















        4












        $begingroup$

        For a start, with what it costs to design and certificate a new aircraft type, if a transport craft can't be reconfigured to carry either passengers or freight it won't make it off the napkin. The conventional transports we have can be switched from cargo to passenger and back, some in just a few hours. For a non-passenger transport to compete, it would have to be much cheaper (to buy and to operate) than a multi-purpose airframe.






        share|improve this answer









        $endgroup$















          4












          4








          4





          $begingroup$

          For a start, with what it costs to design and certificate a new aircraft type, if a transport craft can't be reconfigured to carry either passengers or freight it won't make it off the napkin. The conventional transports we have can be switched from cargo to passenger and back, some in just a few hours. For a non-passenger transport to compete, it would have to be much cheaper (to buy and to operate) than a multi-purpose airframe.






          share|improve this answer









          $endgroup$



          For a start, with what it costs to design and certificate a new aircraft type, if a transport craft can't be reconfigured to carry either passengers or freight it won't make it off the napkin. The conventional transports we have can be switched from cargo to passenger and back, some in just a few hours. For a non-passenger transport to compete, it would have to be much cheaper (to buy and to operate) than a multi-purpose airframe.







          share|improve this answer












          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer










          answered 17 hours ago









          Zeiss IkonZeiss Ikon

          3,502418




          3,502418





















              3












              $begingroup$

              In addition to the other answers, a reason for the lack of flying wings in civil aviation in general is that they need to compete in an environment that has grown alongside conventional, fuselage-and-wings aircraft and is ill-suited for flying wings.



              This means they need to use the same airports (turning radii, RWY widths), fit into the same parking envelopes (wingspan) and be serviced by the same ground vehicles (bay heights, wing clearances). Because redesigning an entire industry worth of ancillary equipment and infrastructure has been deemed not worth the minor efficiency gains to be had from flying wings.






              share|improve this answer









              $endgroup$












              • $begingroup$
                and the extremely conservative attitude of the people making purchasing decisions, that makes it very hard to get even things that look or sound a bit different from the established norm from getting adopted (think the Boeing Sonic Cruiser concept, or the Beechcraft 2000, as prime examples).
                $endgroup$
                – jwenting
                57 mins ago















              3












              $begingroup$

              In addition to the other answers, a reason for the lack of flying wings in civil aviation in general is that they need to compete in an environment that has grown alongside conventional, fuselage-and-wings aircraft and is ill-suited for flying wings.



              This means they need to use the same airports (turning radii, RWY widths), fit into the same parking envelopes (wingspan) and be serviced by the same ground vehicles (bay heights, wing clearances). Because redesigning an entire industry worth of ancillary equipment and infrastructure has been deemed not worth the minor efficiency gains to be had from flying wings.






              share|improve this answer









              $endgroup$












              • $begingroup$
                and the extremely conservative attitude of the people making purchasing decisions, that makes it very hard to get even things that look or sound a bit different from the established norm from getting adopted (think the Boeing Sonic Cruiser concept, or the Beechcraft 2000, as prime examples).
                $endgroup$
                – jwenting
                57 mins ago













              3












              3








              3





              $begingroup$

              In addition to the other answers, a reason for the lack of flying wings in civil aviation in general is that they need to compete in an environment that has grown alongside conventional, fuselage-and-wings aircraft and is ill-suited for flying wings.



              This means they need to use the same airports (turning radii, RWY widths), fit into the same parking envelopes (wingspan) and be serviced by the same ground vehicles (bay heights, wing clearances). Because redesigning an entire industry worth of ancillary equipment and infrastructure has been deemed not worth the minor efficiency gains to be had from flying wings.






              share|improve this answer









              $endgroup$



              In addition to the other answers, a reason for the lack of flying wings in civil aviation in general is that they need to compete in an environment that has grown alongside conventional, fuselage-and-wings aircraft and is ill-suited for flying wings.



              This means they need to use the same airports (turning radii, RWY widths), fit into the same parking envelopes (wingspan) and be serviced by the same ground vehicles (bay heights, wing clearances). Because redesigning an entire industry worth of ancillary equipment and infrastructure has been deemed not worth the minor efficiency gains to be had from flying wings.







              share|improve this answer












              share|improve this answer



              share|improve this answer










              answered 15 hours ago









              AEhereAEhere

              1,526519




              1,526519











              • $begingroup$
                and the extremely conservative attitude of the people making purchasing decisions, that makes it very hard to get even things that look or sound a bit different from the established norm from getting adopted (think the Boeing Sonic Cruiser concept, or the Beechcraft 2000, as prime examples).
                $endgroup$
                – jwenting
                57 mins ago
















              • $begingroup$
                and the extremely conservative attitude of the people making purchasing decisions, that makes it very hard to get even things that look or sound a bit different from the established norm from getting adopted (think the Boeing Sonic Cruiser concept, or the Beechcraft 2000, as prime examples).
                $endgroup$
                – jwenting
                57 mins ago















              $begingroup$
              and the extremely conservative attitude of the people making purchasing decisions, that makes it very hard to get even things that look or sound a bit different from the established norm from getting adopted (think the Boeing Sonic Cruiser concept, or the Beechcraft 2000, as prime examples).
              $endgroup$
              – jwenting
              57 mins ago




              $begingroup$
              and the extremely conservative attitude of the people making purchasing decisions, that makes it very hard to get even things that look or sound a bit different from the established norm from getting adopted (think the Boeing Sonic Cruiser concept, or the Beechcraft 2000, as prime examples).
              $endgroup$
              – jwenting
              57 mins ago











              2












              $begingroup$

              It's all about CG range and how much abuse the design can take. Take a look at the C-130 Hercules. It has a huge Hstab to cope with a wide range of CG. Really a bi-plane. So is the Chinook helicopter. Holding the table up with 4 legs (6 with a canard).



              So, what do we do to get to a viable flying wing? Sweep back offers improvement in pitch stability as (with washout) you lengthen the aircraft. Control surfaces can be placed at the wing tips. Reflexed camber airfoils also help. How to cope the loss of a longer fuselage/Hstab pitch torque arm? Have the cargo bay set on a roller at CG.
              Pull it forward until it tips. Secure, cargo balanced! Fuel tanks can be arranged to drain evenly. Assuming a subsonic design with near neutral static stability, it may even fly without computers.



              But the all important shift in Clift with change in AOA or airspeed must be accounted for.
              So a small tail, like birds have, may help build a better safety margin for the design, with or without computers. Ditto for lower aspect wings. Interestingly, a bird sweeping its wings back becomes ... a delta. Sweep them back out ... an F-111?



              It is possible to reduce tail size in cargo, and passenger planes.






              share|improve this answer











              $endgroup$

















                2












                $begingroup$

                It's all about CG range and how much abuse the design can take. Take a look at the C-130 Hercules. It has a huge Hstab to cope with a wide range of CG. Really a bi-plane. So is the Chinook helicopter. Holding the table up with 4 legs (6 with a canard).



                So, what do we do to get to a viable flying wing? Sweep back offers improvement in pitch stability as (with washout) you lengthen the aircraft. Control surfaces can be placed at the wing tips. Reflexed camber airfoils also help. How to cope the loss of a longer fuselage/Hstab pitch torque arm? Have the cargo bay set on a roller at CG.
                Pull it forward until it tips. Secure, cargo balanced! Fuel tanks can be arranged to drain evenly. Assuming a subsonic design with near neutral static stability, it may even fly without computers.



                But the all important shift in Clift with change in AOA or airspeed must be accounted for.
                So a small tail, like birds have, may help build a better safety margin for the design, with or without computers. Ditto for lower aspect wings. Interestingly, a bird sweeping its wings back becomes ... a delta. Sweep them back out ... an F-111?



                It is possible to reduce tail size in cargo, and passenger planes.






                share|improve this answer











                $endgroup$















                  2












                  2








                  2





                  $begingroup$

                  It's all about CG range and how much abuse the design can take. Take a look at the C-130 Hercules. It has a huge Hstab to cope with a wide range of CG. Really a bi-plane. So is the Chinook helicopter. Holding the table up with 4 legs (6 with a canard).



                  So, what do we do to get to a viable flying wing? Sweep back offers improvement in pitch stability as (with washout) you lengthen the aircraft. Control surfaces can be placed at the wing tips. Reflexed camber airfoils also help. How to cope the loss of a longer fuselage/Hstab pitch torque arm? Have the cargo bay set on a roller at CG.
                  Pull it forward until it tips. Secure, cargo balanced! Fuel tanks can be arranged to drain evenly. Assuming a subsonic design with near neutral static stability, it may even fly without computers.



                  But the all important shift in Clift with change in AOA or airspeed must be accounted for.
                  So a small tail, like birds have, may help build a better safety margin for the design, with or without computers. Ditto for lower aspect wings. Interestingly, a bird sweeping its wings back becomes ... a delta. Sweep them back out ... an F-111?



                  It is possible to reduce tail size in cargo, and passenger planes.






                  share|improve this answer











                  $endgroup$



                  It's all about CG range and how much abuse the design can take. Take a look at the C-130 Hercules. It has a huge Hstab to cope with a wide range of CG. Really a bi-plane. So is the Chinook helicopter. Holding the table up with 4 legs (6 with a canard).



                  So, what do we do to get to a viable flying wing? Sweep back offers improvement in pitch stability as (with washout) you lengthen the aircraft. Control surfaces can be placed at the wing tips. Reflexed camber airfoils also help. How to cope the loss of a longer fuselage/Hstab pitch torque arm? Have the cargo bay set on a roller at CG.
                  Pull it forward until it tips. Secure, cargo balanced! Fuel tanks can be arranged to drain evenly. Assuming a subsonic design with near neutral static stability, it may even fly without computers.



                  But the all important shift in Clift with change in AOA or airspeed must be accounted for.
                  So a small tail, like birds have, may help build a better safety margin for the design, with or without computers. Ditto for lower aspect wings. Interestingly, a bird sweeping its wings back becomes ... a delta. Sweep them back out ... an F-111?



                  It is possible to reduce tail size in cargo, and passenger planes.







                  share|improve this answer














                  share|improve this answer



                  share|improve this answer








                  edited 14 hours ago

























                  answered 15 hours ago









                  Robert DiGiovanniRobert DiGiovanni

                  2,8851316




                  2,8851316




















                      h23 is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.









                      draft saved

                      draft discarded


















                      h23 is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.












                      h23 is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.











                      h23 is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.














                      Thanks for contributing an answer to Aviation Stack Exchange!


                      • Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!

                      But avoid


                      • Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.

                      • Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.

                      Use MathJax to format equations. MathJax reference.


                      To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.




                      draft saved


                      draft discarded














                      StackExchange.ready(
                      function ()
                      StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2faviation.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f62377%2fwhy-are-there-no-cargo-aircraft-with-flying-wing-design%23new-answer', 'question_page');

                      );

                      Post as a guest















                      Required, but never shown





















































                      Required, but never shown














                      Required, but never shown












                      Required, but never shown







                      Required, but never shown

































                      Required, but never shown














                      Required, but never shown












                      Required, but never shown







                      Required, but never shown







                      Popular posts from this blog

                      How to create a command for the “strange m” symbol in latex? Announcing the arrival of Valued Associate #679: Cesar Manara Planned maintenance scheduled April 23, 2019 at 23:30 UTC (7:30pm US/Eastern)How do you make your own symbol when Detexify fails?Writing bold small caps with mathpazo packageplus-minus symbol with parenthesis around the minus signGreek character in Beamer document titleHow to create dashed right arrow over symbol?Currency symbol: Turkish LiraDouble prec as a single symbol?Plus Sign Too Big; How to Call adfbullet?Is there a TeX macro for three-legged pi?How do I get my integral-like symbol to align like the integral?How to selectively substitute a letter with another symbol representing the same letterHow do I generate a less than symbol and vertical bar that are the same height?

                      Българска екзархия Съдържание История | Български екзарси | Вижте също | Външни препратки | Литература | Бележки | НавигацияУстав за управлението на българската екзархия. Цариград, 1870Слово на Ловешкия митрополит Иларион при откриването на Българския народен събор в Цариград на 23. II. 1870 г.Българската правда и гръцката кривда. От С. М. (= Софийски Мелетий). Цариград, 1872Предстоятели на Българската екзархияПодмененият ВеликденИнформационна агенция „Фокус“Димитър Ризов. Българите в техните исторически, етнографически и политически граници (Атлас съдържащ 40 карти). Berlin, Königliche Hoflithographie, Hof-Buch- und -Steindruckerei Wilhelm Greve, 1917Report of the International Commission to Inquire into the Causes and Conduct of the Balkan Wars

                      Category:Tremithousa Media in category "Tremithousa"Navigation menuUpload media34° 49′ 02.7″ N, 32° 26′ 37.32″ EOpenStreetMapGoogle EarthProximityramaReasonatorScholiaStatisticsWikiShootMe