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Is “But, I later realized, have no car” grammatical?
Announcing the arrival of Valued Associate #679: Cesar Manara
Planned maintenance scheduled April 23, 2019 at 23:30 UTC (7:30pm US/Eastern)Can I add a comma here just for “rhythm”?Comma issue: noun of direct address in the middle of the sentence after conjunctionShould a semicolon be used with a conjunction and a dependent clause?Dependent clause *comma* independent clause *comma?* *coordinating conjunction* independent clauseComma usage in parallel structure without conjunctions?What are the exceptions of using a comma in a simple sentence with a compound predicate joined by a coordinating conjunction?Comma before a coordinating conjunction in compound-complex sentences?Commas and Coordinating Conjunctions Before Dependent ClausesWhy is this sentence incorrect? Why is this other sentence correct?Can “ comma + and” be part of a non-restrictive clause?
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I was engaged in some informal but I hope grammatical conversation with a friend who is less fluent in English than me (so I didn't want to confuse them!). It went:
- So why are you so upset?
- You really want to know?
- Sure!
- Well, you know how I was telling you how I sold my car?
- Yeah
- I was excited about driving up to Manchester...
- OK.
- But, I later realized, have no car.
Is "But, I later realized, have no car" grammatical?
I think maybe, and with the following reason.
"But, I later realized, have no car"? sounds better than "But I later realized, have no car". I think the former sounds better due to the grammar, and one answer for why that is, is that it's grammatical (rather than, say, more rhetorical or I'm not interested in their reply).
I am concerned with the elided "I" in what would be the independent clause "have no car", and so I'm guessing it may be grammatical because in the latter the phrase "I later realized" is parenthesized (so that the conditional conjunction 'but' belongs to the independent clause "[I] have no car"), if that's not a misunderstanding.
Or perhaps it's because the conjunction 'but' in the former, used, example need not be read as set off with a comma.
The question seems a difficult one, as wikipedia says:
the dropping of pronouns is generally restricted to very informal
speech and certain fixed expressions, and the rules for their use are
complex and vary among dialects and register
I would be asking for BrSE, at least foremostly.
commas pronouns pro-drop
|
show 21 more comments
I was engaged in some informal but I hope grammatical conversation with a friend who is less fluent in English than me (so I didn't want to confuse them!). It went:
- So why are you so upset?
- You really want to know?
- Sure!
- Well, you know how I was telling you how I sold my car?
- Yeah
- I was excited about driving up to Manchester...
- OK.
- But, I later realized, have no car.
Is "But, I later realized, have no car" grammatical?
I think maybe, and with the following reason.
"But, I later realized, have no car"? sounds better than "But I later realized, have no car". I think the former sounds better due to the grammar, and one answer for why that is, is that it's grammatical (rather than, say, more rhetorical or I'm not interested in their reply).
I am concerned with the elided "I" in what would be the independent clause "have no car", and so I'm guessing it may be grammatical because in the latter the phrase "I later realized" is parenthesized (so that the conditional conjunction 'but' belongs to the independent clause "[I] have no car"), if that's not a misunderstanding.
Or perhaps it's because the conjunction 'but' in the former, used, example need not be read as set off with a comma.
The question seems a difficult one, as wikipedia says:
the dropping of pronouns is generally restricted to very informal
speech and certain fixed expressions, and the rules for their use are
complex and vary among dialects and register
I would be asking for BrSE, at least foremostly.
commas pronouns pro-drop
5
you can't elide the i
– Toothrot
5 hours ago
4
You are asking "why does A sound better than B?" when to me, they both sound ungrammatical, and neither is particularly better. So it seems really a matter of opinion.
– Peter Shor
4 hours ago
2
Why does lemon cake seem better than strawberry ice cream? This answer is a matter of opinion, because it only seems better to me.
– Peter Shor
4 hours ago
1
Please clarify who has no car.
– Dan
4 hours ago
1
Dropping pronoun is problematic because it makes unclear who has no car.
– Dan
4 hours ago
|
show 21 more comments
I was engaged in some informal but I hope grammatical conversation with a friend who is less fluent in English than me (so I didn't want to confuse them!). It went:
- So why are you so upset?
- You really want to know?
- Sure!
- Well, you know how I was telling you how I sold my car?
- Yeah
- I was excited about driving up to Manchester...
- OK.
- But, I later realized, have no car.
Is "But, I later realized, have no car" grammatical?
I think maybe, and with the following reason.
"But, I later realized, have no car"? sounds better than "But I later realized, have no car". I think the former sounds better due to the grammar, and one answer for why that is, is that it's grammatical (rather than, say, more rhetorical or I'm not interested in their reply).
I am concerned with the elided "I" in what would be the independent clause "have no car", and so I'm guessing it may be grammatical because in the latter the phrase "I later realized" is parenthesized (so that the conditional conjunction 'but' belongs to the independent clause "[I] have no car"), if that's not a misunderstanding.
Or perhaps it's because the conjunction 'but' in the former, used, example need not be read as set off with a comma.
The question seems a difficult one, as wikipedia says:
the dropping of pronouns is generally restricted to very informal
speech and certain fixed expressions, and the rules for their use are
complex and vary among dialects and register
I would be asking for BrSE, at least foremostly.
commas pronouns pro-drop
I was engaged in some informal but I hope grammatical conversation with a friend who is less fluent in English than me (so I didn't want to confuse them!). It went:
- So why are you so upset?
- You really want to know?
- Sure!
- Well, you know how I was telling you how I sold my car?
- Yeah
- I was excited about driving up to Manchester...
- OK.
- But, I later realized, have no car.
Is "But, I later realized, have no car" grammatical?
I think maybe, and with the following reason.
"But, I later realized, have no car"? sounds better than "But I later realized, have no car". I think the former sounds better due to the grammar, and one answer for why that is, is that it's grammatical (rather than, say, more rhetorical or I'm not interested in their reply).
I am concerned with the elided "I" in what would be the independent clause "have no car", and so I'm guessing it may be grammatical because in the latter the phrase "I later realized" is parenthesized (so that the conditional conjunction 'but' belongs to the independent clause "[I] have no car"), if that's not a misunderstanding.
Or perhaps it's because the conjunction 'but' in the former, used, example need not be read as set off with a comma.
The question seems a difficult one, as wikipedia says:
the dropping of pronouns is generally restricted to very informal
speech and certain fixed expressions, and the rules for their use are
complex and vary among dialects and register
I would be asking for BrSE, at least foremostly.
commas pronouns pro-drop
commas pronouns pro-drop
edited 3 hours ago
user3293056
asked 5 hours ago
user3293056user3293056
677719
677719
5
you can't elide the i
– Toothrot
5 hours ago
4
You are asking "why does A sound better than B?" when to me, they both sound ungrammatical, and neither is particularly better. So it seems really a matter of opinion.
– Peter Shor
4 hours ago
2
Why does lemon cake seem better than strawberry ice cream? This answer is a matter of opinion, because it only seems better to me.
– Peter Shor
4 hours ago
1
Please clarify who has no car.
– Dan
4 hours ago
1
Dropping pronoun is problematic because it makes unclear who has no car.
– Dan
4 hours ago
|
show 21 more comments
5
you can't elide the i
– Toothrot
5 hours ago
4
You are asking "why does A sound better than B?" when to me, they both sound ungrammatical, and neither is particularly better. So it seems really a matter of opinion.
– Peter Shor
4 hours ago
2
Why does lemon cake seem better than strawberry ice cream? This answer is a matter of opinion, because it only seems better to me.
– Peter Shor
4 hours ago
1
Please clarify who has no car.
– Dan
4 hours ago
1
Dropping pronoun is problematic because it makes unclear who has no car.
– Dan
4 hours ago
5
5
you can't elide the i
– Toothrot
5 hours ago
you can't elide the i
– Toothrot
5 hours ago
4
4
You are asking "why does A sound better than B?" when to me, they both sound ungrammatical, and neither is particularly better. So it seems really a matter of opinion.
– Peter Shor
4 hours ago
You are asking "why does A sound better than B?" when to me, they both sound ungrammatical, and neither is particularly better. So it seems really a matter of opinion.
– Peter Shor
4 hours ago
2
2
Why does lemon cake seem better than strawberry ice cream? This answer is a matter of opinion, because it only seems better to me.
– Peter Shor
4 hours ago
Why does lemon cake seem better than strawberry ice cream? This answer is a matter of opinion, because it only seems better to me.
– Peter Shor
4 hours ago
1
1
Please clarify who has no car.
– Dan
4 hours ago
Please clarify who has no car.
– Dan
4 hours ago
1
1
Dropping pronoun is problematic because it makes unclear who has no car.
– Dan
4 hours ago
Dropping pronoun is problematic because it makes unclear who has no car.
– Dan
4 hours ago
|
show 21 more comments
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
I was excited about driving up to Manchester...
OK.
But, I later realized, have no car.
If we consider only the last line then, after removing the "parenthetical clause", we get "But have no car." This is clearly non-grammatical (though comprehensible).
However, if we consider the first line, and regard the two lines as simply being a single (though disjointed) sentence, we get "I was excited about driving up to Manchester but have no car." This is valid syntax and semantics.
Often in speech a perfectly valid sentence can get disjointed in this fashion, especially when the listener interjects an "OK" or some such to acknowledge his comprehension. Within reason this doesn't affect the validity of the overall statement.
thank you for your answer, which, along with dan's comment, was helpful... i am still concerned that the your claim "is clearly non-grammatical" cites no-one. but feel that my question is answered now.
– user3293056
3 hours ago
and thanks for noticing how the interjection was working!!
– user3293056
3 hours ago
add a comment |
I am willing to bet you imagined something like below but didn't type it out as such because is quite esoteric outside of train-of-thought writing (disclaimer: I am including the book here merely as an example):
"But I -- I later realized -- have no car."
There should be 2 "I"s; it is a interjected independent clause, the subject does not carry over.
no, not at all! see my edit. anyway, you didn't address my use of 'pro-drop', so i'm concerned that your answer isn't even an answer to my question (which must still be unclear?)
– user3293056
4 hours ago
add a comment |
Why does it seem okay with the comma, but not without? When you have two parallel clauses with the same subject, you can drop the subject from the second one.
I had a book I was reading, but left it on the airplane.
I was excited about driving up to Manchester, but have no car.
When you add an interjection, it's still grammatical.
I was excited about driving up to Manchester but, I later realized, have no car.
Now, in dialog, when somebody interrupts that sentence, you still might be able to argue that it's grammatical:
I was excited about driving up to Manchester ...
OK
... but, I later realized, have no car.
On the other hand, if you have a main clause and a dependent clause with the same subject, you cannot leave the subject off the dependent clause. The following are ungrammatical. (Asterisks indicate ungrammaticality.)
*I told him would drive him home.
*I realized have no car.
So if I later realized is not an interjection (which it isn't unless you put a comma after the but), the whole thing is ungrammatical:
*I was excited about driving up to Manchester, but I later realized, have no car.
Without the first part of the interrupted sentence, "I was excited about driving up to Manchester," the second half of the interrupted sentence, "but, I realized, have no car" is ungrammatical whether or not there is a comma after the but.
add a comment |
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3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
I was excited about driving up to Manchester...
OK.
But, I later realized, have no car.
If we consider only the last line then, after removing the "parenthetical clause", we get "But have no car." This is clearly non-grammatical (though comprehensible).
However, if we consider the first line, and regard the two lines as simply being a single (though disjointed) sentence, we get "I was excited about driving up to Manchester but have no car." This is valid syntax and semantics.
Often in speech a perfectly valid sentence can get disjointed in this fashion, especially when the listener interjects an "OK" or some such to acknowledge his comprehension. Within reason this doesn't affect the validity of the overall statement.
thank you for your answer, which, along with dan's comment, was helpful... i am still concerned that the your claim "is clearly non-grammatical" cites no-one. but feel that my question is answered now.
– user3293056
3 hours ago
and thanks for noticing how the interjection was working!!
– user3293056
3 hours ago
add a comment |
I was excited about driving up to Manchester...
OK.
But, I later realized, have no car.
If we consider only the last line then, after removing the "parenthetical clause", we get "But have no car." This is clearly non-grammatical (though comprehensible).
However, if we consider the first line, and regard the two lines as simply being a single (though disjointed) sentence, we get "I was excited about driving up to Manchester but have no car." This is valid syntax and semantics.
Often in speech a perfectly valid sentence can get disjointed in this fashion, especially when the listener interjects an "OK" or some such to acknowledge his comprehension. Within reason this doesn't affect the validity of the overall statement.
thank you for your answer, which, along with dan's comment, was helpful... i am still concerned that the your claim "is clearly non-grammatical" cites no-one. but feel that my question is answered now.
– user3293056
3 hours ago
and thanks for noticing how the interjection was working!!
– user3293056
3 hours ago
add a comment |
I was excited about driving up to Manchester...
OK.
But, I later realized, have no car.
If we consider only the last line then, after removing the "parenthetical clause", we get "But have no car." This is clearly non-grammatical (though comprehensible).
However, if we consider the first line, and regard the two lines as simply being a single (though disjointed) sentence, we get "I was excited about driving up to Manchester but have no car." This is valid syntax and semantics.
Often in speech a perfectly valid sentence can get disjointed in this fashion, especially when the listener interjects an "OK" or some such to acknowledge his comprehension. Within reason this doesn't affect the validity of the overall statement.
I was excited about driving up to Manchester...
OK.
But, I later realized, have no car.
If we consider only the last line then, after removing the "parenthetical clause", we get "But have no car." This is clearly non-grammatical (though comprehensible).
However, if we consider the first line, and regard the two lines as simply being a single (though disjointed) sentence, we get "I was excited about driving up to Manchester but have no car." This is valid syntax and semantics.
Often in speech a perfectly valid sentence can get disjointed in this fashion, especially when the listener interjects an "OK" or some such to acknowledge his comprehension. Within reason this doesn't affect the validity of the overall statement.
edited 1 hour ago
Chappo
3,02151427
3,02151427
answered 4 hours ago
Hot LicksHot Licks
19.8k23778
19.8k23778
thank you for your answer, which, along with dan's comment, was helpful... i am still concerned that the your claim "is clearly non-grammatical" cites no-one. but feel that my question is answered now.
– user3293056
3 hours ago
and thanks for noticing how the interjection was working!!
– user3293056
3 hours ago
add a comment |
thank you for your answer, which, along with dan's comment, was helpful... i am still concerned that the your claim "is clearly non-grammatical" cites no-one. but feel that my question is answered now.
– user3293056
3 hours ago
and thanks for noticing how the interjection was working!!
– user3293056
3 hours ago
thank you for your answer, which, along with dan's comment, was helpful... i am still concerned that the your claim "is clearly non-grammatical" cites no-one. but feel that my question is answered now.
– user3293056
3 hours ago
thank you for your answer, which, along with dan's comment, was helpful... i am still concerned that the your claim "is clearly non-grammatical" cites no-one. but feel that my question is answered now.
– user3293056
3 hours ago
and thanks for noticing how the interjection was working!!
– user3293056
3 hours ago
and thanks for noticing how the interjection was working!!
– user3293056
3 hours ago
add a comment |
I am willing to bet you imagined something like below but didn't type it out as such because is quite esoteric outside of train-of-thought writing (disclaimer: I am including the book here merely as an example):
"But I -- I later realized -- have no car."
There should be 2 "I"s; it is a interjected independent clause, the subject does not carry over.
no, not at all! see my edit. anyway, you didn't address my use of 'pro-drop', so i'm concerned that your answer isn't even an answer to my question (which must still be unclear?)
– user3293056
4 hours ago
add a comment |
I am willing to bet you imagined something like below but didn't type it out as such because is quite esoteric outside of train-of-thought writing (disclaimer: I am including the book here merely as an example):
"But I -- I later realized -- have no car."
There should be 2 "I"s; it is a interjected independent clause, the subject does not carry over.
no, not at all! see my edit. anyway, you didn't address my use of 'pro-drop', so i'm concerned that your answer isn't even an answer to my question (which must still be unclear?)
– user3293056
4 hours ago
add a comment |
I am willing to bet you imagined something like below but didn't type it out as such because is quite esoteric outside of train-of-thought writing (disclaimer: I am including the book here merely as an example):
"But I -- I later realized -- have no car."
There should be 2 "I"s; it is a interjected independent clause, the subject does not carry over.
I am willing to bet you imagined something like below but didn't type it out as such because is quite esoteric outside of train-of-thought writing (disclaimer: I am including the book here merely as an example):
"But I -- I later realized -- have no car."
There should be 2 "I"s; it is a interjected independent clause, the subject does not carry over.
answered 4 hours ago
CarlyCarly
1,678213
1,678213
no, not at all! see my edit. anyway, you didn't address my use of 'pro-drop', so i'm concerned that your answer isn't even an answer to my question (which must still be unclear?)
– user3293056
4 hours ago
add a comment |
no, not at all! see my edit. anyway, you didn't address my use of 'pro-drop', so i'm concerned that your answer isn't even an answer to my question (which must still be unclear?)
– user3293056
4 hours ago
no, not at all! see my edit. anyway, you didn't address my use of 'pro-drop', so i'm concerned that your answer isn't even an answer to my question (which must still be unclear?)
– user3293056
4 hours ago
no, not at all! see my edit. anyway, you didn't address my use of 'pro-drop', so i'm concerned that your answer isn't even an answer to my question (which must still be unclear?)
– user3293056
4 hours ago
add a comment |
Why does it seem okay with the comma, but not without? When you have two parallel clauses with the same subject, you can drop the subject from the second one.
I had a book I was reading, but left it on the airplane.
I was excited about driving up to Manchester, but have no car.
When you add an interjection, it's still grammatical.
I was excited about driving up to Manchester but, I later realized, have no car.
Now, in dialog, when somebody interrupts that sentence, you still might be able to argue that it's grammatical:
I was excited about driving up to Manchester ...
OK
... but, I later realized, have no car.
On the other hand, if you have a main clause and a dependent clause with the same subject, you cannot leave the subject off the dependent clause. The following are ungrammatical. (Asterisks indicate ungrammaticality.)
*I told him would drive him home.
*I realized have no car.
So if I later realized is not an interjection (which it isn't unless you put a comma after the but), the whole thing is ungrammatical:
*I was excited about driving up to Manchester, but I later realized, have no car.
Without the first part of the interrupted sentence, "I was excited about driving up to Manchester," the second half of the interrupted sentence, "but, I realized, have no car" is ungrammatical whether or not there is a comma after the but.
add a comment |
Why does it seem okay with the comma, but not without? When you have two parallel clauses with the same subject, you can drop the subject from the second one.
I had a book I was reading, but left it on the airplane.
I was excited about driving up to Manchester, but have no car.
When you add an interjection, it's still grammatical.
I was excited about driving up to Manchester but, I later realized, have no car.
Now, in dialog, when somebody interrupts that sentence, you still might be able to argue that it's grammatical:
I was excited about driving up to Manchester ...
OK
... but, I later realized, have no car.
On the other hand, if you have a main clause and a dependent clause with the same subject, you cannot leave the subject off the dependent clause. The following are ungrammatical. (Asterisks indicate ungrammaticality.)
*I told him would drive him home.
*I realized have no car.
So if I later realized is not an interjection (which it isn't unless you put a comma after the but), the whole thing is ungrammatical:
*I was excited about driving up to Manchester, but I later realized, have no car.
Without the first part of the interrupted sentence, "I was excited about driving up to Manchester," the second half of the interrupted sentence, "but, I realized, have no car" is ungrammatical whether or not there is a comma after the but.
add a comment |
Why does it seem okay with the comma, but not without? When you have two parallel clauses with the same subject, you can drop the subject from the second one.
I had a book I was reading, but left it on the airplane.
I was excited about driving up to Manchester, but have no car.
When you add an interjection, it's still grammatical.
I was excited about driving up to Manchester but, I later realized, have no car.
Now, in dialog, when somebody interrupts that sentence, you still might be able to argue that it's grammatical:
I was excited about driving up to Manchester ...
OK
... but, I later realized, have no car.
On the other hand, if you have a main clause and a dependent clause with the same subject, you cannot leave the subject off the dependent clause. The following are ungrammatical. (Asterisks indicate ungrammaticality.)
*I told him would drive him home.
*I realized have no car.
So if I later realized is not an interjection (which it isn't unless you put a comma after the but), the whole thing is ungrammatical:
*I was excited about driving up to Manchester, but I later realized, have no car.
Without the first part of the interrupted sentence, "I was excited about driving up to Manchester," the second half of the interrupted sentence, "but, I realized, have no car" is ungrammatical whether or not there is a comma after the but.
Why does it seem okay with the comma, but not without? When you have two parallel clauses with the same subject, you can drop the subject from the second one.
I had a book I was reading, but left it on the airplane.
I was excited about driving up to Manchester, but have no car.
When you add an interjection, it's still grammatical.
I was excited about driving up to Manchester but, I later realized, have no car.
Now, in dialog, when somebody interrupts that sentence, you still might be able to argue that it's grammatical:
I was excited about driving up to Manchester ...
OK
... but, I later realized, have no car.
On the other hand, if you have a main clause and a dependent clause with the same subject, you cannot leave the subject off the dependent clause. The following are ungrammatical. (Asterisks indicate ungrammaticality.)
*I told him would drive him home.
*I realized have no car.
So if I later realized is not an interjection (which it isn't unless you put a comma after the but), the whole thing is ungrammatical:
*I was excited about driving up to Manchester, but I later realized, have no car.
Without the first part of the interrupted sentence, "I was excited about driving up to Manchester," the second half of the interrupted sentence, "but, I realized, have no car" is ungrammatical whether or not there is a comma after the but.
edited 2 hours ago
answered 3 hours ago
Peter Shor Peter Shor
63.4k5123230
63.4k5123230
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5
you can't elide the i
– Toothrot
5 hours ago
4
You are asking "why does A sound better than B?" when to me, they both sound ungrammatical, and neither is particularly better. So it seems really a matter of opinion.
– Peter Shor
4 hours ago
2
Why does lemon cake seem better than strawberry ice cream? This answer is a matter of opinion, because it only seems better to me.
– Peter Shor
4 hours ago
1
Please clarify who has no car.
– Dan
4 hours ago
1
Dropping pronoun is problematic because it makes unclear who has no car.
– Dan
4 hours ago