Why do many countries not offer a fixed rate 30 year mortgage? The 2019 Stack Overflow Developer Survey Results Are InWhat is the economic argument for taxing sales at the place of purchaser instead of the place of provider?What would be the economic impact of eliminating all tax deductions in the US?How is the employment rate defined for OECD countries?Why do unstable countries prefer a black market for currency to exist, rather than accepting the real exchange rate?Progressive income taxesWas Obama's HUD mortgage rate fee reduction a renewal, or a first time thing?Why is the top tax rate 39.6%Why are there so many countries that apply interest rate caps/ceilings?Why is Daylight saving time (DST) still used in so many Western countries?Is there a feasible route by which UK housing can be made more affordable without devastating the housebuilding sector and its employees?
Why doesn't UInt have a toDouble()?
How to support a colleague who finds meetings extremely tiring?
How to obtain a position of last non-zero element
What do hard-Brexiteers want with respect to the Irish border?
What is this business jet?
Old scifi movie from the 50s or 60s with men in solid red uniforms who interrogate a spy from the past
Can there be female White Walkers?
Mathematics of imaging the black hole
Is it ethical to upload a automatically generated paper to a non peer-reviewed site as part of a larger research?
Worn-tile Scrabble
Correct punctuation for showing a character's confusion
Cooking pasta in a water boiler
The phrase "to the numbers born"?
If I can cast sorceries at instant speed, can I use sorcery-speed activated abilities at instant speed?
I am an eight letter word. What am I?
What is the light source in the black hole images?
How do I free up internal storage if I don't have any apps downloaded?
Dropping list elements from nested list after evaluation
How to translate "being like"?
What is the motivation for a law requiring 2 parties to consent for recording a conversation
Kerning for subscripts of sigma?
How to notate time signature switching consistently every measure
How much of the clove should I use when using big garlic heads?
What do I do when my TA workload is more than expected?
Why do many countries not offer a fixed rate 30 year mortgage?
The 2019 Stack Overflow Developer Survey Results Are InWhat is the economic argument for taxing sales at the place of purchaser instead of the place of provider?What would be the economic impact of eliminating all tax deductions in the US?How is the employment rate defined for OECD countries?Why do unstable countries prefer a black market for currency to exist, rather than accepting the real exchange rate?Progressive income taxesWas Obama's HUD mortgage rate fee reduction a renewal, or a first time thing?Why is the top tax rate 39.6%Why are there so many countries that apply interest rate caps/ceilings?Why is Daylight saving time (DST) still used in so many Western countries?Is there a feasible route by which UK housing can be made more affordable without devastating the housebuilding sector and its employees?
I recently moved from the US to the UK and was bewildered by the myriad subtle and not so subtle differences in mortgage products offered by banks.
It struck me that the variety of federal assistance programs in the US surrounding home buying is a little spoken form of socialism. We have a 30 year fixed rate mortgage underwritten by federal agencies Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. From our federal taxes, we can deduct interest payments and property tax payments, essentially helping to subsidize the local education system and other local services. There are no penalties for early repayment of the loan.
In the UK, in contrast, which is supposedly a "more socialist" country, the longest fixed interest rate period is 10 years. There are no deductions on HMRC taxes associated with interest payments or "council tax" payments. Finally, there are penalties on early repayment.
Are there historical reasons for these differences? Why isn't a sizeable fraction of the US up in arms about their "socialist'' home ownership programs? Why isn't there stricter regulation and oversight of the mortgage industry in the UK? Spiraling house prices, historically low interest rates, and a looming Brexit and consequent inflation makes the situation seem like a bomb ready go off. The central bank raises interest rates, 4 million mortgage holders can't make their mortgage payments, and then...
united-states united-kingdom economy taxes
add a comment |
I recently moved from the US to the UK and was bewildered by the myriad subtle and not so subtle differences in mortgage products offered by banks.
It struck me that the variety of federal assistance programs in the US surrounding home buying is a little spoken form of socialism. We have a 30 year fixed rate mortgage underwritten by federal agencies Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. From our federal taxes, we can deduct interest payments and property tax payments, essentially helping to subsidize the local education system and other local services. There are no penalties for early repayment of the loan.
In the UK, in contrast, which is supposedly a "more socialist" country, the longest fixed interest rate period is 10 years. There are no deductions on HMRC taxes associated with interest payments or "council tax" payments. Finally, there are penalties on early repayment.
Are there historical reasons for these differences? Why isn't a sizeable fraction of the US up in arms about their "socialist'' home ownership programs? Why isn't there stricter regulation and oversight of the mortgage industry in the UK? Spiraling house prices, historically low interest rates, and a looming Brexit and consequent inflation makes the situation seem like a bomb ready go off. The central bank raises interest rates, 4 million mortgage holders can't make their mortgage payments, and then...
united-states united-kingdom economy taxes
5
It is a joke to say UK is amore socialist countryafter Thatcherism that never ceased.
– mootmoot
9 hours ago
5
"It struck me that the variety of federal assistance programs in the US surrounding home buying is a little spoken form of socialism." This is highly pedantic, but giveaways from the government do not constitute "socialism" anywhere; socialism requires public ownership of the means of production.
– Joe
7 hours ago
"The central bank raises interest rates, 4 million mortgage holders can't make their mortgage payments" Are they variable rate mortgages? Prepayment penalties are more common for fixed-rate mortgages.
– Acccumulation
3 hours ago
@Joe Correct. What the OP is talking about is called "asset-based welfare" or "property-based welfare" jstor.org/stable/41107504
– Fizz
2 hours ago
@Accumulation. My understanding is that there are about 10 million outstanding mortgages in the UK which average about 100,000 pounds a piece. Most borrowers take out loans that have two, five or ten year fixed rates periods and associated early repayment penalties.
– user2309840
1 hour ago
add a comment |
I recently moved from the US to the UK and was bewildered by the myriad subtle and not so subtle differences in mortgage products offered by banks.
It struck me that the variety of federal assistance programs in the US surrounding home buying is a little spoken form of socialism. We have a 30 year fixed rate mortgage underwritten by federal agencies Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. From our federal taxes, we can deduct interest payments and property tax payments, essentially helping to subsidize the local education system and other local services. There are no penalties for early repayment of the loan.
In the UK, in contrast, which is supposedly a "more socialist" country, the longest fixed interest rate period is 10 years. There are no deductions on HMRC taxes associated with interest payments or "council tax" payments. Finally, there are penalties on early repayment.
Are there historical reasons for these differences? Why isn't a sizeable fraction of the US up in arms about their "socialist'' home ownership programs? Why isn't there stricter regulation and oversight of the mortgage industry in the UK? Spiraling house prices, historically low interest rates, and a looming Brexit and consequent inflation makes the situation seem like a bomb ready go off. The central bank raises interest rates, 4 million mortgage holders can't make their mortgage payments, and then...
united-states united-kingdom economy taxes
I recently moved from the US to the UK and was bewildered by the myriad subtle and not so subtle differences in mortgage products offered by banks.
It struck me that the variety of federal assistance programs in the US surrounding home buying is a little spoken form of socialism. We have a 30 year fixed rate mortgage underwritten by federal agencies Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. From our federal taxes, we can deduct interest payments and property tax payments, essentially helping to subsidize the local education system and other local services. There are no penalties for early repayment of the loan.
In the UK, in contrast, which is supposedly a "more socialist" country, the longest fixed interest rate period is 10 years. There are no deductions on HMRC taxes associated with interest payments or "council tax" payments. Finally, there are penalties on early repayment.
Are there historical reasons for these differences? Why isn't a sizeable fraction of the US up in arms about their "socialist'' home ownership programs? Why isn't there stricter regulation and oversight of the mortgage industry in the UK? Spiraling house prices, historically low interest rates, and a looming Brexit and consequent inflation makes the situation seem like a bomb ready go off. The central bank raises interest rates, 4 million mortgage holders can't make their mortgage payments, and then...
united-states united-kingdom economy taxes
united-states united-kingdom economy taxes
edited 10 hours ago
JJJ
6,31322456
6,31322456
asked 11 hours ago
user2309840user2309840
413312
413312
5
It is a joke to say UK is amore socialist countryafter Thatcherism that never ceased.
– mootmoot
9 hours ago
5
"It struck me that the variety of federal assistance programs in the US surrounding home buying is a little spoken form of socialism." This is highly pedantic, but giveaways from the government do not constitute "socialism" anywhere; socialism requires public ownership of the means of production.
– Joe
7 hours ago
"The central bank raises interest rates, 4 million mortgage holders can't make their mortgage payments" Are they variable rate mortgages? Prepayment penalties are more common for fixed-rate mortgages.
– Acccumulation
3 hours ago
@Joe Correct. What the OP is talking about is called "asset-based welfare" or "property-based welfare" jstor.org/stable/41107504
– Fizz
2 hours ago
@Accumulation. My understanding is that there are about 10 million outstanding mortgages in the UK which average about 100,000 pounds a piece. Most borrowers take out loans that have two, five or ten year fixed rates periods and associated early repayment penalties.
– user2309840
1 hour ago
add a comment |
5
It is a joke to say UK is amore socialist countryafter Thatcherism that never ceased.
– mootmoot
9 hours ago
5
"It struck me that the variety of federal assistance programs in the US surrounding home buying is a little spoken form of socialism." This is highly pedantic, but giveaways from the government do not constitute "socialism" anywhere; socialism requires public ownership of the means of production.
– Joe
7 hours ago
"The central bank raises interest rates, 4 million mortgage holders can't make their mortgage payments" Are they variable rate mortgages? Prepayment penalties are more common for fixed-rate mortgages.
– Acccumulation
3 hours ago
@Joe Correct. What the OP is talking about is called "asset-based welfare" or "property-based welfare" jstor.org/stable/41107504
– Fizz
2 hours ago
@Accumulation. My understanding is that there are about 10 million outstanding mortgages in the UK which average about 100,000 pounds a piece. Most borrowers take out loans that have two, five or ten year fixed rates periods and associated early repayment penalties.
– user2309840
1 hour ago
5
5
It is a joke to say UK is a
more socialist country after Thatcherism that never ceased.– mootmoot
9 hours ago
It is a joke to say UK is a
more socialist country after Thatcherism that never ceased.– mootmoot
9 hours ago
5
5
"It struck me that the variety of federal assistance programs in the US surrounding home buying is a little spoken form of socialism." This is highly pedantic, but giveaways from the government do not constitute "socialism" anywhere; socialism requires public ownership of the means of production.
– Joe
7 hours ago
"It struck me that the variety of federal assistance programs in the US surrounding home buying is a little spoken form of socialism." This is highly pedantic, but giveaways from the government do not constitute "socialism" anywhere; socialism requires public ownership of the means of production.
– Joe
7 hours ago
"The central bank raises interest rates, 4 million mortgage holders can't make their mortgage payments" Are they variable rate mortgages? Prepayment penalties are more common for fixed-rate mortgages.
– Acccumulation
3 hours ago
"The central bank raises interest rates, 4 million mortgage holders can't make their mortgage payments" Are they variable rate mortgages? Prepayment penalties are more common for fixed-rate mortgages.
– Acccumulation
3 hours ago
@Joe Correct. What the OP is talking about is called "asset-based welfare" or "property-based welfare" jstor.org/stable/41107504
– Fizz
2 hours ago
@Joe Correct. What the OP is talking about is called "asset-based welfare" or "property-based welfare" jstor.org/stable/41107504
– Fizz
2 hours ago
@Accumulation. My understanding is that there are about 10 million outstanding mortgages in the UK which average about 100,000 pounds a piece. Most borrowers take out loans that have two, five or ten year fixed rates periods and associated early repayment penalties.
– user2309840
1 hour ago
@Accumulation. My understanding is that there are about 10 million outstanding mortgages in the UK which average about 100,000 pounds a piece. Most borrowers take out loans that have two, five or ten year fixed rates periods and associated early repayment penalties.
– user2309840
1 hour ago
add a comment |
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
The economics side of this question might do better on PersonalFinance.SE. A possible answer from the Telegraph:
Customers, firstly, are to blame, say lenders. There’s not enough demand because borrowers prefer the flexibility of being able to switch deals.
It has been tried before. In 2007 Gordon Brown, then prime minister, said he wanted to make longer fixes more available.
This seems to be linked to the gradual fall in interest rates over the past 30 or so years - people seem happy to bet that this will continue. Short-term fixes seem to be the cheapest option - at least in the short term (yes this is a bit of a tautology).
Why isn't a sizeable fraction of the US up in arms about their "socialist" home ownership programs?
People like free money for themselves, it's just free money for other people they're upset about. None of this is "socialism". A truly socialist economy would put much more effort into social housing, possibly to the extent of banning mortgage lending or even homeownership, although that's more towards the full communism end.
The central bank raises interest rates, 4 million mortgage holders can't make their mortgage payments, and then
And then the government bails them out somehow, because any other outcome is electorally unacceptable?
1
Also, the mortgage interest deduction is not seen as "free money" (unlike subsidized housing), but as being able to keep a bit more of your own money out of the hands of the government.
– jamesqf
4 hours ago
My understanding is that the current "mortgage welfare" policies in the US grew out of things that happened in the Great Depression. I'm surprised that the UK, which despite Thatcherism I see in many ways as to the left of the US, has not adopted similar policies. Thanks for the link to The Telegraph, where I learn from time to time the UK has tried, but failed, presumably because, unlike their American cousins, the policies did not also include abolishing early repayment penalties.
– user2309840
1 hour ago
The UK also had mortgage interest relief for a while (MIRAS) under Thatcher, who was a big fan of giving away money to homeowners to promote the Tory vote.
– pjc50
46 mins ago
add a comment |
Up here in Canada, things are not necessarily as clear as they could be.
For example, we get headlines from reputable news sources like this: The end is here for 40-year mortgages which might lead the reasonable person to conclude that 40-year mortgages are no longer being offered to Canadians.
But it turns out that isn't true. If you manage to get past the headline and read down into the article, you'll see that "The government said the measures will apply to new government-backed, insured mortgages."
If you don't care about your mortgage being government-backed or insured by the Canada Mortgage and Housing Corp. (CMHC), which is a Crown corporation, you can enter into whatever sort of mortgage contract you might be able to negotiate (sort of.)
To get to the underlying question of why the government, through the CMHC, might decide to insure 40-year mortages, then stop, then reduce that further from 35-years down to 30-years, then consider raising it again -- these sorts of decisions are made to further social, economic, and other political goals, such as stimulating or dampening the economy, encouraging or discouraging home ownership, influencing household debt levels, etc etc. This paper from the Bank of Canada provides a useful overview.
add a comment |
Basically the 30-year FRM is closely related to the government subsidizing the mortgage industry, which most other countries don't do because it's ineffective at promoting home ownership. It's only effective at subsidizing the rich... and that's the opposite of "socialism" (in the sense that the OP construed the term).
The mortgage subsidy program tanked in the UK in the '80s and it isn't as successful as one might have hoped in the rest of Europe either, as The Economist thundered (in 2017):
IN THE 1980s Margaret Thatcher and Ronald Reagan were both proud of their efforts to expand home ownership. In Britain, Thatcher presided over a fire sale of state-owned homes to tenants. In America, Reagan deregulated financial markets and expanded mortgage lending. At the time both countries provided generous mortgage-related tax breaks, making it easier to flog homes to the masses.
Britain’s 1980s housing boom turned to bust; the mortgage subsidies that helped to fuel it were abolished. America still subsidises mortgages to the tune of $64bn a year, by allowing homeowners to deduct interest costs from their tax liabilities. [...]
Twelve European Union countries also include some form of mortgage-interest deduction (MID) in their tax code. The average European subsidy, however, is around a tenth of America’s—about 0.05% of GDP. The Netherlands is much the most generous, at 2% of GDP.
Evidence that MID schemes boost home ownership is scant. Recent research covering rich countries suggests it has no effect. Moreover, subsidising mortgages might actually hurt economies by helping inflate housing bubbles. The European Commission blames Sweden’s generous MID scheme for encouraging a household-debt binge and inflating house prices.
All but three EU countries have either reformed or repealed their MID schemes since the 2007-08 financial crisis. Ireland, Spain and Greece, for example, withdrew subsidies after suffering property busts. But withdrawing MID cannot on its own prevent property-market bubbles. According to The Economist’s round-up of global house prices, Australia, New Zealand and Canada all have overvalued housing markets despite the absence of mortgage subsidies [...].
Interest deductibility might be more defensible if its benefits were more evenly spread. In the Netherlands and elsewhere in Europe, the biggest benefits accrue to the richest householders, although many European countries tend to combine MID schemes with other generous housing welfare. In America 70% of the subsidy is claimed by the top 20% of earners. The country spends more on housing subsidies for 7m households earning over $200,000 a year than it does on the 55m making less than $50,000.
There is also the big fear that abolishing it (in the US) will lead to housing prices to fall. Which will be more of a problem there because of the lower welfare provisions in general
When the Netherlands adjusted its mortgage subsidy in 2012, house prices fell by 10%, but they are now climbing again at a decent clip. Prices in Britain are partly buoyed by the private rented sector where landlords have been able to deduct interest expenses from their rental income. The government began phasing out that deduction in April. That will have a big effect on the market.
And if you what The Economist writes on this is left-wing, you should read the New Yorker's article "The Mortgage Mistake". That's probably why the "more socialist" Europeans don't dig these measures as they mostly subsidize the rich.
Since the nineteen-thirties, the U.S. government has been committed to the idea that homeownership is an unalloyed good. The list of things the government does to support the housing industry is long. The Federal Housing Administration offers low-interest mortgages. Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, by repurchasing and guaranteeing mortgages, help hold down interest rates. Homeowners get a variety of tax breaks, including a mortgage-interest deduction and a property-tax write-off, which add up to more than two hundred billion dollars a year in lost tax revenue.
Yet it’s far from clear that these programs actually do much to increase the over-all number of homeowners. Other Western countries don’t have anything like our range of pro-housing enticements, and their rates of homeownership aren’t much different from ours. The main impact of the mortgage-interest deduction and other subsidies is not that they get people to buy houses. It’s that they get people to buy bigger, costlier houses than they otherwise would.
The bigger your mortgage, the larger the tax deduction you get. This is why real-estate agents, during the housing boom, advised their clients to buy as big a house as possible, since the government was helping them pay for it. The result is that almost all the economic benefits of the mortgage deduction go to people earning more than a hundred thousand dollars a year. The average middle-class homeowner saves little or no money. As Dennis Ventry, a tax expert and law professor at U.C. Davis, told me, “It’s a classic upside-down subsidy: it goes to all the wrong people. If you really want to help people buy homes who otherwise wouldn’t, we’ve chosen exactly the wrong tool.”
A 2015 paper noted that:
Government and quasi-government entities dominate mortgage finance in the U.S. Over the past
five years, the government-sponsored enterprises, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, and the Federal
Housing Administration have stood behind 80% of the newly originated mortgages.
This may have been a lesser proportion before the financial crisis, but I can't find data right now. But it looks like No Freddie and Fannie, no long fixed mortgages. Financial Times has a lot of articles deploring these two US institutions, by the way, so it's not only a left-wing critique.
More data on home ownership from an article not dealing with mortgages:
Homeownership allows families to build wealth, obtain a measure of financial security, and reduce financial risk in retirement. But in a recent paper published in the Journal of Economic Perspectives, we found that the United States’ homeownership rate has lost ground compared with other developed countries for which we could obtain a full dataset.
In 1990, the United States ranked 10th of the 18 countries, solidly in the middle of the group and, with a 63.9 percent homeownership rate, just above the average. By 2015, however, the US was the fifth lowest, with a rate of 63.7 percent, well below the 69.6 percent average.
Why is the US homeownership rate on the low end in the developed world? Between 1990 and 2015, 13 of the 18 countries increased their homeownership rates, while the US rate remained unchanged. Global interest rates fell, making access to homeownership easier.
[...]
Homeownership rates in the UK and the US are similar, even though the US has a mortgage interest deduction, while the UK subsidizes renting through its large stock of social and affordable rentals (about 17 percent of housing units are classified as “social or affordable rental stock”).
I don't have data on hand for that, but suspect however that US houses are bigger and more expensive on average, so just looking at ownership percentage might not be whole picture.
add a comment |
Your Answer
StackExchange.ready(function()
var channelOptions =
tags: "".split(" "),
id: "475"
;
initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);
StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function()
// Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled)
StackExchange.using("snippets", function()
createEditor();
);
else
createEditor();
);
function createEditor()
StackExchange.prepareEditor(
heartbeatType: 'answer',
autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
convertImagesToLinks: false,
noModals: true,
showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
reputationToPostImages: null,
bindNavPrevention: true,
postfix: "",
imageUploader:
brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
allowUrls: true
,
noCode: true, onDemand: true,
discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
);
);
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function ()
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fpolitics.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f40482%2fwhy-do-many-countries-not-offer-a-fixed-rate-30-year-mortgage%23new-answer', 'question_page');
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
The economics side of this question might do better on PersonalFinance.SE. A possible answer from the Telegraph:
Customers, firstly, are to blame, say lenders. There’s not enough demand because borrowers prefer the flexibility of being able to switch deals.
It has been tried before. In 2007 Gordon Brown, then prime minister, said he wanted to make longer fixes more available.
This seems to be linked to the gradual fall in interest rates over the past 30 or so years - people seem happy to bet that this will continue. Short-term fixes seem to be the cheapest option - at least in the short term (yes this is a bit of a tautology).
Why isn't a sizeable fraction of the US up in arms about their "socialist" home ownership programs?
People like free money for themselves, it's just free money for other people they're upset about. None of this is "socialism". A truly socialist economy would put much more effort into social housing, possibly to the extent of banning mortgage lending or even homeownership, although that's more towards the full communism end.
The central bank raises interest rates, 4 million mortgage holders can't make their mortgage payments, and then
And then the government bails them out somehow, because any other outcome is electorally unacceptable?
1
Also, the mortgage interest deduction is not seen as "free money" (unlike subsidized housing), but as being able to keep a bit more of your own money out of the hands of the government.
– jamesqf
4 hours ago
My understanding is that the current "mortgage welfare" policies in the US grew out of things that happened in the Great Depression. I'm surprised that the UK, which despite Thatcherism I see in many ways as to the left of the US, has not adopted similar policies. Thanks for the link to The Telegraph, where I learn from time to time the UK has tried, but failed, presumably because, unlike their American cousins, the policies did not also include abolishing early repayment penalties.
– user2309840
1 hour ago
The UK also had mortgage interest relief for a while (MIRAS) under Thatcher, who was a big fan of giving away money to homeowners to promote the Tory vote.
– pjc50
46 mins ago
add a comment |
The economics side of this question might do better on PersonalFinance.SE. A possible answer from the Telegraph:
Customers, firstly, are to blame, say lenders. There’s not enough demand because borrowers prefer the flexibility of being able to switch deals.
It has been tried before. In 2007 Gordon Brown, then prime minister, said he wanted to make longer fixes more available.
This seems to be linked to the gradual fall in interest rates over the past 30 or so years - people seem happy to bet that this will continue. Short-term fixes seem to be the cheapest option - at least in the short term (yes this is a bit of a tautology).
Why isn't a sizeable fraction of the US up in arms about their "socialist" home ownership programs?
People like free money for themselves, it's just free money for other people they're upset about. None of this is "socialism". A truly socialist economy would put much more effort into social housing, possibly to the extent of banning mortgage lending or even homeownership, although that's more towards the full communism end.
The central bank raises interest rates, 4 million mortgage holders can't make their mortgage payments, and then
And then the government bails them out somehow, because any other outcome is electorally unacceptable?
1
Also, the mortgage interest deduction is not seen as "free money" (unlike subsidized housing), but as being able to keep a bit more of your own money out of the hands of the government.
– jamesqf
4 hours ago
My understanding is that the current "mortgage welfare" policies in the US grew out of things that happened in the Great Depression. I'm surprised that the UK, which despite Thatcherism I see in many ways as to the left of the US, has not adopted similar policies. Thanks for the link to The Telegraph, where I learn from time to time the UK has tried, but failed, presumably because, unlike their American cousins, the policies did not also include abolishing early repayment penalties.
– user2309840
1 hour ago
The UK also had mortgage interest relief for a while (MIRAS) under Thatcher, who was a big fan of giving away money to homeowners to promote the Tory vote.
– pjc50
46 mins ago
add a comment |
The economics side of this question might do better on PersonalFinance.SE. A possible answer from the Telegraph:
Customers, firstly, are to blame, say lenders. There’s not enough demand because borrowers prefer the flexibility of being able to switch deals.
It has been tried before. In 2007 Gordon Brown, then prime minister, said he wanted to make longer fixes more available.
This seems to be linked to the gradual fall in interest rates over the past 30 or so years - people seem happy to bet that this will continue. Short-term fixes seem to be the cheapest option - at least in the short term (yes this is a bit of a tautology).
Why isn't a sizeable fraction of the US up in arms about their "socialist" home ownership programs?
People like free money for themselves, it's just free money for other people they're upset about. None of this is "socialism". A truly socialist economy would put much more effort into social housing, possibly to the extent of banning mortgage lending or even homeownership, although that's more towards the full communism end.
The central bank raises interest rates, 4 million mortgage holders can't make their mortgage payments, and then
And then the government bails them out somehow, because any other outcome is electorally unacceptable?
The economics side of this question might do better on PersonalFinance.SE. A possible answer from the Telegraph:
Customers, firstly, are to blame, say lenders. There’s not enough demand because borrowers prefer the flexibility of being able to switch deals.
It has been tried before. In 2007 Gordon Brown, then prime minister, said he wanted to make longer fixes more available.
This seems to be linked to the gradual fall in interest rates over the past 30 or so years - people seem happy to bet that this will continue. Short-term fixes seem to be the cheapest option - at least in the short term (yes this is a bit of a tautology).
Why isn't a sizeable fraction of the US up in arms about their "socialist" home ownership programs?
People like free money for themselves, it's just free money for other people they're upset about. None of this is "socialism". A truly socialist economy would put much more effort into social housing, possibly to the extent of banning mortgage lending or even homeownership, although that's more towards the full communism end.
The central bank raises interest rates, 4 million mortgage holders can't make their mortgage payments, and then
And then the government bails them out somehow, because any other outcome is electorally unacceptable?
edited 8 hours ago
Machavity
17.9k65687
17.9k65687
answered 10 hours ago
pjc50pjc50
8,76911937
8,76911937
1
Also, the mortgage interest deduction is not seen as "free money" (unlike subsidized housing), but as being able to keep a bit more of your own money out of the hands of the government.
– jamesqf
4 hours ago
My understanding is that the current "mortgage welfare" policies in the US grew out of things that happened in the Great Depression. I'm surprised that the UK, which despite Thatcherism I see in many ways as to the left of the US, has not adopted similar policies. Thanks for the link to The Telegraph, where I learn from time to time the UK has tried, but failed, presumably because, unlike their American cousins, the policies did not also include abolishing early repayment penalties.
– user2309840
1 hour ago
The UK also had mortgage interest relief for a while (MIRAS) under Thatcher, who was a big fan of giving away money to homeowners to promote the Tory vote.
– pjc50
46 mins ago
add a comment |
1
Also, the mortgage interest deduction is not seen as "free money" (unlike subsidized housing), but as being able to keep a bit more of your own money out of the hands of the government.
– jamesqf
4 hours ago
My understanding is that the current "mortgage welfare" policies in the US grew out of things that happened in the Great Depression. I'm surprised that the UK, which despite Thatcherism I see in many ways as to the left of the US, has not adopted similar policies. Thanks for the link to The Telegraph, where I learn from time to time the UK has tried, but failed, presumably because, unlike their American cousins, the policies did not also include abolishing early repayment penalties.
– user2309840
1 hour ago
The UK also had mortgage interest relief for a while (MIRAS) under Thatcher, who was a big fan of giving away money to homeowners to promote the Tory vote.
– pjc50
46 mins ago
1
1
Also, the mortgage interest deduction is not seen as "free money" (unlike subsidized housing), but as being able to keep a bit more of your own money out of the hands of the government.
– jamesqf
4 hours ago
Also, the mortgage interest deduction is not seen as "free money" (unlike subsidized housing), but as being able to keep a bit more of your own money out of the hands of the government.
– jamesqf
4 hours ago
My understanding is that the current "mortgage welfare" policies in the US grew out of things that happened in the Great Depression. I'm surprised that the UK, which despite Thatcherism I see in many ways as to the left of the US, has not adopted similar policies. Thanks for the link to The Telegraph, where I learn from time to time the UK has tried, but failed, presumably because, unlike their American cousins, the policies did not also include abolishing early repayment penalties.
– user2309840
1 hour ago
My understanding is that the current "mortgage welfare" policies in the US grew out of things that happened in the Great Depression. I'm surprised that the UK, which despite Thatcherism I see in many ways as to the left of the US, has not adopted similar policies. Thanks for the link to The Telegraph, where I learn from time to time the UK has tried, but failed, presumably because, unlike their American cousins, the policies did not also include abolishing early repayment penalties.
– user2309840
1 hour ago
The UK also had mortgage interest relief for a while (MIRAS) under Thatcher, who was a big fan of giving away money to homeowners to promote the Tory vote.
– pjc50
46 mins ago
The UK also had mortgage interest relief for a while (MIRAS) under Thatcher, who was a big fan of giving away money to homeowners to promote the Tory vote.
– pjc50
46 mins ago
add a comment |
Up here in Canada, things are not necessarily as clear as they could be.
For example, we get headlines from reputable news sources like this: The end is here for 40-year mortgages which might lead the reasonable person to conclude that 40-year mortgages are no longer being offered to Canadians.
But it turns out that isn't true. If you manage to get past the headline and read down into the article, you'll see that "The government said the measures will apply to new government-backed, insured mortgages."
If you don't care about your mortgage being government-backed or insured by the Canada Mortgage and Housing Corp. (CMHC), which is a Crown corporation, you can enter into whatever sort of mortgage contract you might be able to negotiate (sort of.)
To get to the underlying question of why the government, through the CMHC, might decide to insure 40-year mortages, then stop, then reduce that further from 35-years down to 30-years, then consider raising it again -- these sorts of decisions are made to further social, economic, and other political goals, such as stimulating or dampening the economy, encouraging or discouraging home ownership, influencing household debt levels, etc etc. This paper from the Bank of Canada provides a useful overview.
add a comment |
Up here in Canada, things are not necessarily as clear as they could be.
For example, we get headlines from reputable news sources like this: The end is here for 40-year mortgages which might lead the reasonable person to conclude that 40-year mortgages are no longer being offered to Canadians.
But it turns out that isn't true. If you manage to get past the headline and read down into the article, you'll see that "The government said the measures will apply to new government-backed, insured mortgages."
If you don't care about your mortgage being government-backed or insured by the Canada Mortgage and Housing Corp. (CMHC), which is a Crown corporation, you can enter into whatever sort of mortgage contract you might be able to negotiate (sort of.)
To get to the underlying question of why the government, through the CMHC, might decide to insure 40-year mortages, then stop, then reduce that further from 35-years down to 30-years, then consider raising it again -- these sorts of decisions are made to further social, economic, and other political goals, such as stimulating or dampening the economy, encouraging or discouraging home ownership, influencing household debt levels, etc etc. This paper from the Bank of Canada provides a useful overview.
add a comment |
Up here in Canada, things are not necessarily as clear as they could be.
For example, we get headlines from reputable news sources like this: The end is here for 40-year mortgages which might lead the reasonable person to conclude that 40-year mortgages are no longer being offered to Canadians.
But it turns out that isn't true. If you manage to get past the headline and read down into the article, you'll see that "The government said the measures will apply to new government-backed, insured mortgages."
If you don't care about your mortgage being government-backed or insured by the Canada Mortgage and Housing Corp. (CMHC), which is a Crown corporation, you can enter into whatever sort of mortgage contract you might be able to negotiate (sort of.)
To get to the underlying question of why the government, through the CMHC, might decide to insure 40-year mortages, then stop, then reduce that further from 35-years down to 30-years, then consider raising it again -- these sorts of decisions are made to further social, economic, and other political goals, such as stimulating or dampening the economy, encouraging or discouraging home ownership, influencing household debt levels, etc etc. This paper from the Bank of Canada provides a useful overview.
Up here in Canada, things are not necessarily as clear as they could be.
For example, we get headlines from reputable news sources like this: The end is here for 40-year mortgages which might lead the reasonable person to conclude that 40-year mortgages are no longer being offered to Canadians.
But it turns out that isn't true. If you manage to get past the headline and read down into the article, you'll see that "The government said the measures will apply to new government-backed, insured mortgages."
If you don't care about your mortgage being government-backed or insured by the Canada Mortgage and Housing Corp. (CMHC), which is a Crown corporation, you can enter into whatever sort of mortgage contract you might be able to negotiate (sort of.)
To get to the underlying question of why the government, through the CMHC, might decide to insure 40-year mortages, then stop, then reduce that further from 35-years down to 30-years, then consider raising it again -- these sorts of decisions are made to further social, economic, and other political goals, such as stimulating or dampening the economy, encouraging or discouraging home ownership, influencing household debt levels, etc etc. This paper from the Bank of Canada provides a useful overview.
answered 8 hours ago
RogerRoger
854112
854112
add a comment |
add a comment |
Basically the 30-year FRM is closely related to the government subsidizing the mortgage industry, which most other countries don't do because it's ineffective at promoting home ownership. It's only effective at subsidizing the rich... and that's the opposite of "socialism" (in the sense that the OP construed the term).
The mortgage subsidy program tanked in the UK in the '80s and it isn't as successful as one might have hoped in the rest of Europe either, as The Economist thundered (in 2017):
IN THE 1980s Margaret Thatcher and Ronald Reagan were both proud of their efforts to expand home ownership. In Britain, Thatcher presided over a fire sale of state-owned homes to tenants. In America, Reagan deregulated financial markets and expanded mortgage lending. At the time both countries provided generous mortgage-related tax breaks, making it easier to flog homes to the masses.
Britain’s 1980s housing boom turned to bust; the mortgage subsidies that helped to fuel it were abolished. America still subsidises mortgages to the tune of $64bn a year, by allowing homeowners to deduct interest costs from their tax liabilities. [...]
Twelve European Union countries also include some form of mortgage-interest deduction (MID) in their tax code. The average European subsidy, however, is around a tenth of America’s—about 0.05% of GDP. The Netherlands is much the most generous, at 2% of GDP.
Evidence that MID schemes boost home ownership is scant. Recent research covering rich countries suggests it has no effect. Moreover, subsidising mortgages might actually hurt economies by helping inflate housing bubbles. The European Commission blames Sweden’s generous MID scheme for encouraging a household-debt binge and inflating house prices.
All but three EU countries have either reformed or repealed their MID schemes since the 2007-08 financial crisis. Ireland, Spain and Greece, for example, withdrew subsidies after suffering property busts. But withdrawing MID cannot on its own prevent property-market bubbles. According to The Economist’s round-up of global house prices, Australia, New Zealand and Canada all have overvalued housing markets despite the absence of mortgage subsidies [...].
Interest deductibility might be more defensible if its benefits were more evenly spread. In the Netherlands and elsewhere in Europe, the biggest benefits accrue to the richest householders, although many European countries tend to combine MID schemes with other generous housing welfare. In America 70% of the subsidy is claimed by the top 20% of earners. The country spends more on housing subsidies for 7m households earning over $200,000 a year than it does on the 55m making less than $50,000.
There is also the big fear that abolishing it (in the US) will lead to housing prices to fall. Which will be more of a problem there because of the lower welfare provisions in general
When the Netherlands adjusted its mortgage subsidy in 2012, house prices fell by 10%, but they are now climbing again at a decent clip. Prices in Britain are partly buoyed by the private rented sector where landlords have been able to deduct interest expenses from their rental income. The government began phasing out that deduction in April. That will have a big effect on the market.
And if you what The Economist writes on this is left-wing, you should read the New Yorker's article "The Mortgage Mistake". That's probably why the "more socialist" Europeans don't dig these measures as they mostly subsidize the rich.
Since the nineteen-thirties, the U.S. government has been committed to the idea that homeownership is an unalloyed good. The list of things the government does to support the housing industry is long. The Federal Housing Administration offers low-interest mortgages. Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, by repurchasing and guaranteeing mortgages, help hold down interest rates. Homeowners get a variety of tax breaks, including a mortgage-interest deduction and a property-tax write-off, which add up to more than two hundred billion dollars a year in lost tax revenue.
Yet it’s far from clear that these programs actually do much to increase the over-all number of homeowners. Other Western countries don’t have anything like our range of pro-housing enticements, and their rates of homeownership aren’t much different from ours. The main impact of the mortgage-interest deduction and other subsidies is not that they get people to buy houses. It’s that they get people to buy bigger, costlier houses than they otherwise would.
The bigger your mortgage, the larger the tax deduction you get. This is why real-estate agents, during the housing boom, advised their clients to buy as big a house as possible, since the government was helping them pay for it. The result is that almost all the economic benefits of the mortgage deduction go to people earning more than a hundred thousand dollars a year. The average middle-class homeowner saves little or no money. As Dennis Ventry, a tax expert and law professor at U.C. Davis, told me, “It’s a classic upside-down subsidy: it goes to all the wrong people. If you really want to help people buy homes who otherwise wouldn’t, we’ve chosen exactly the wrong tool.”
A 2015 paper noted that:
Government and quasi-government entities dominate mortgage finance in the U.S. Over the past
five years, the government-sponsored enterprises, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, and the Federal
Housing Administration have stood behind 80% of the newly originated mortgages.
This may have been a lesser proportion before the financial crisis, but I can't find data right now. But it looks like No Freddie and Fannie, no long fixed mortgages. Financial Times has a lot of articles deploring these two US institutions, by the way, so it's not only a left-wing critique.
More data on home ownership from an article not dealing with mortgages:
Homeownership allows families to build wealth, obtain a measure of financial security, and reduce financial risk in retirement. But in a recent paper published in the Journal of Economic Perspectives, we found that the United States’ homeownership rate has lost ground compared with other developed countries for which we could obtain a full dataset.
In 1990, the United States ranked 10th of the 18 countries, solidly in the middle of the group and, with a 63.9 percent homeownership rate, just above the average. By 2015, however, the US was the fifth lowest, with a rate of 63.7 percent, well below the 69.6 percent average.
Why is the US homeownership rate on the low end in the developed world? Between 1990 and 2015, 13 of the 18 countries increased their homeownership rates, while the US rate remained unchanged. Global interest rates fell, making access to homeownership easier.
[...]
Homeownership rates in the UK and the US are similar, even though the US has a mortgage interest deduction, while the UK subsidizes renting through its large stock of social and affordable rentals (about 17 percent of housing units are classified as “social or affordable rental stock”).
I don't have data on hand for that, but suspect however that US houses are bigger and more expensive on average, so just looking at ownership percentage might not be whole picture.
add a comment |
Basically the 30-year FRM is closely related to the government subsidizing the mortgage industry, which most other countries don't do because it's ineffective at promoting home ownership. It's only effective at subsidizing the rich... and that's the opposite of "socialism" (in the sense that the OP construed the term).
The mortgage subsidy program tanked in the UK in the '80s and it isn't as successful as one might have hoped in the rest of Europe either, as The Economist thundered (in 2017):
IN THE 1980s Margaret Thatcher and Ronald Reagan were both proud of their efforts to expand home ownership. In Britain, Thatcher presided over a fire sale of state-owned homes to tenants. In America, Reagan deregulated financial markets and expanded mortgage lending. At the time both countries provided generous mortgage-related tax breaks, making it easier to flog homes to the masses.
Britain’s 1980s housing boom turned to bust; the mortgage subsidies that helped to fuel it were abolished. America still subsidises mortgages to the tune of $64bn a year, by allowing homeowners to deduct interest costs from their tax liabilities. [...]
Twelve European Union countries also include some form of mortgage-interest deduction (MID) in their tax code. The average European subsidy, however, is around a tenth of America’s—about 0.05% of GDP. The Netherlands is much the most generous, at 2% of GDP.
Evidence that MID schemes boost home ownership is scant. Recent research covering rich countries suggests it has no effect. Moreover, subsidising mortgages might actually hurt economies by helping inflate housing bubbles. The European Commission blames Sweden’s generous MID scheme for encouraging a household-debt binge and inflating house prices.
All but three EU countries have either reformed or repealed their MID schemes since the 2007-08 financial crisis. Ireland, Spain and Greece, for example, withdrew subsidies after suffering property busts. But withdrawing MID cannot on its own prevent property-market bubbles. According to The Economist’s round-up of global house prices, Australia, New Zealand and Canada all have overvalued housing markets despite the absence of mortgage subsidies [...].
Interest deductibility might be more defensible if its benefits were more evenly spread. In the Netherlands and elsewhere in Europe, the biggest benefits accrue to the richest householders, although many European countries tend to combine MID schemes with other generous housing welfare. In America 70% of the subsidy is claimed by the top 20% of earners. The country spends more on housing subsidies for 7m households earning over $200,000 a year than it does on the 55m making less than $50,000.
There is also the big fear that abolishing it (in the US) will lead to housing prices to fall. Which will be more of a problem there because of the lower welfare provisions in general
When the Netherlands adjusted its mortgage subsidy in 2012, house prices fell by 10%, but they are now climbing again at a decent clip. Prices in Britain are partly buoyed by the private rented sector where landlords have been able to deduct interest expenses from their rental income. The government began phasing out that deduction in April. That will have a big effect on the market.
And if you what The Economist writes on this is left-wing, you should read the New Yorker's article "The Mortgage Mistake". That's probably why the "more socialist" Europeans don't dig these measures as they mostly subsidize the rich.
Since the nineteen-thirties, the U.S. government has been committed to the idea that homeownership is an unalloyed good. The list of things the government does to support the housing industry is long. The Federal Housing Administration offers low-interest mortgages. Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, by repurchasing and guaranteeing mortgages, help hold down interest rates. Homeowners get a variety of tax breaks, including a mortgage-interest deduction and a property-tax write-off, which add up to more than two hundred billion dollars a year in lost tax revenue.
Yet it’s far from clear that these programs actually do much to increase the over-all number of homeowners. Other Western countries don’t have anything like our range of pro-housing enticements, and their rates of homeownership aren’t much different from ours. The main impact of the mortgage-interest deduction and other subsidies is not that they get people to buy houses. It’s that they get people to buy bigger, costlier houses than they otherwise would.
The bigger your mortgage, the larger the tax deduction you get. This is why real-estate agents, during the housing boom, advised their clients to buy as big a house as possible, since the government was helping them pay for it. The result is that almost all the economic benefits of the mortgage deduction go to people earning more than a hundred thousand dollars a year. The average middle-class homeowner saves little or no money. As Dennis Ventry, a tax expert and law professor at U.C. Davis, told me, “It’s a classic upside-down subsidy: it goes to all the wrong people. If you really want to help people buy homes who otherwise wouldn’t, we’ve chosen exactly the wrong tool.”
A 2015 paper noted that:
Government and quasi-government entities dominate mortgage finance in the U.S. Over the past
five years, the government-sponsored enterprises, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, and the Federal
Housing Administration have stood behind 80% of the newly originated mortgages.
This may have been a lesser proportion before the financial crisis, but I can't find data right now. But it looks like No Freddie and Fannie, no long fixed mortgages. Financial Times has a lot of articles deploring these two US institutions, by the way, so it's not only a left-wing critique.
More data on home ownership from an article not dealing with mortgages:
Homeownership allows families to build wealth, obtain a measure of financial security, and reduce financial risk in retirement. But in a recent paper published in the Journal of Economic Perspectives, we found that the United States’ homeownership rate has lost ground compared with other developed countries for which we could obtain a full dataset.
In 1990, the United States ranked 10th of the 18 countries, solidly in the middle of the group and, with a 63.9 percent homeownership rate, just above the average. By 2015, however, the US was the fifth lowest, with a rate of 63.7 percent, well below the 69.6 percent average.
Why is the US homeownership rate on the low end in the developed world? Between 1990 and 2015, 13 of the 18 countries increased their homeownership rates, while the US rate remained unchanged. Global interest rates fell, making access to homeownership easier.
[...]
Homeownership rates in the UK and the US are similar, even though the US has a mortgage interest deduction, while the UK subsidizes renting through its large stock of social and affordable rentals (about 17 percent of housing units are classified as “social or affordable rental stock”).
I don't have data on hand for that, but suspect however that US houses are bigger and more expensive on average, so just looking at ownership percentage might not be whole picture.
add a comment |
Basically the 30-year FRM is closely related to the government subsidizing the mortgage industry, which most other countries don't do because it's ineffective at promoting home ownership. It's only effective at subsidizing the rich... and that's the opposite of "socialism" (in the sense that the OP construed the term).
The mortgage subsidy program tanked in the UK in the '80s and it isn't as successful as one might have hoped in the rest of Europe either, as The Economist thundered (in 2017):
IN THE 1980s Margaret Thatcher and Ronald Reagan were both proud of their efforts to expand home ownership. In Britain, Thatcher presided over a fire sale of state-owned homes to tenants. In America, Reagan deregulated financial markets and expanded mortgage lending. At the time both countries provided generous mortgage-related tax breaks, making it easier to flog homes to the masses.
Britain’s 1980s housing boom turned to bust; the mortgage subsidies that helped to fuel it were abolished. America still subsidises mortgages to the tune of $64bn a year, by allowing homeowners to deduct interest costs from their tax liabilities. [...]
Twelve European Union countries also include some form of mortgage-interest deduction (MID) in their tax code. The average European subsidy, however, is around a tenth of America’s—about 0.05% of GDP. The Netherlands is much the most generous, at 2% of GDP.
Evidence that MID schemes boost home ownership is scant. Recent research covering rich countries suggests it has no effect. Moreover, subsidising mortgages might actually hurt economies by helping inflate housing bubbles. The European Commission blames Sweden’s generous MID scheme for encouraging a household-debt binge and inflating house prices.
All but three EU countries have either reformed or repealed their MID schemes since the 2007-08 financial crisis. Ireland, Spain and Greece, for example, withdrew subsidies after suffering property busts. But withdrawing MID cannot on its own prevent property-market bubbles. According to The Economist’s round-up of global house prices, Australia, New Zealand and Canada all have overvalued housing markets despite the absence of mortgage subsidies [...].
Interest deductibility might be more defensible if its benefits were more evenly spread. In the Netherlands and elsewhere in Europe, the biggest benefits accrue to the richest householders, although many European countries tend to combine MID schemes with other generous housing welfare. In America 70% of the subsidy is claimed by the top 20% of earners. The country spends more on housing subsidies for 7m households earning over $200,000 a year than it does on the 55m making less than $50,000.
There is also the big fear that abolishing it (in the US) will lead to housing prices to fall. Which will be more of a problem there because of the lower welfare provisions in general
When the Netherlands adjusted its mortgage subsidy in 2012, house prices fell by 10%, but they are now climbing again at a decent clip. Prices in Britain are partly buoyed by the private rented sector where landlords have been able to deduct interest expenses from their rental income. The government began phasing out that deduction in April. That will have a big effect on the market.
And if you what The Economist writes on this is left-wing, you should read the New Yorker's article "The Mortgage Mistake". That's probably why the "more socialist" Europeans don't dig these measures as they mostly subsidize the rich.
Since the nineteen-thirties, the U.S. government has been committed to the idea that homeownership is an unalloyed good. The list of things the government does to support the housing industry is long. The Federal Housing Administration offers low-interest mortgages. Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, by repurchasing and guaranteeing mortgages, help hold down interest rates. Homeowners get a variety of tax breaks, including a mortgage-interest deduction and a property-tax write-off, which add up to more than two hundred billion dollars a year in lost tax revenue.
Yet it’s far from clear that these programs actually do much to increase the over-all number of homeowners. Other Western countries don’t have anything like our range of pro-housing enticements, and their rates of homeownership aren’t much different from ours. The main impact of the mortgage-interest deduction and other subsidies is not that they get people to buy houses. It’s that they get people to buy bigger, costlier houses than they otherwise would.
The bigger your mortgage, the larger the tax deduction you get. This is why real-estate agents, during the housing boom, advised their clients to buy as big a house as possible, since the government was helping them pay for it. The result is that almost all the economic benefits of the mortgage deduction go to people earning more than a hundred thousand dollars a year. The average middle-class homeowner saves little or no money. As Dennis Ventry, a tax expert and law professor at U.C. Davis, told me, “It’s a classic upside-down subsidy: it goes to all the wrong people. If you really want to help people buy homes who otherwise wouldn’t, we’ve chosen exactly the wrong tool.”
A 2015 paper noted that:
Government and quasi-government entities dominate mortgage finance in the U.S. Over the past
five years, the government-sponsored enterprises, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, and the Federal
Housing Administration have stood behind 80% of the newly originated mortgages.
This may have been a lesser proportion before the financial crisis, but I can't find data right now. But it looks like No Freddie and Fannie, no long fixed mortgages. Financial Times has a lot of articles deploring these two US institutions, by the way, so it's not only a left-wing critique.
More data on home ownership from an article not dealing with mortgages:
Homeownership allows families to build wealth, obtain a measure of financial security, and reduce financial risk in retirement. But in a recent paper published in the Journal of Economic Perspectives, we found that the United States’ homeownership rate has lost ground compared with other developed countries for which we could obtain a full dataset.
In 1990, the United States ranked 10th of the 18 countries, solidly in the middle of the group and, with a 63.9 percent homeownership rate, just above the average. By 2015, however, the US was the fifth lowest, with a rate of 63.7 percent, well below the 69.6 percent average.
Why is the US homeownership rate on the low end in the developed world? Between 1990 and 2015, 13 of the 18 countries increased their homeownership rates, while the US rate remained unchanged. Global interest rates fell, making access to homeownership easier.
[...]
Homeownership rates in the UK and the US are similar, even though the US has a mortgage interest deduction, while the UK subsidizes renting through its large stock of social and affordable rentals (about 17 percent of housing units are classified as “social or affordable rental stock”).
I don't have data on hand for that, but suspect however that US houses are bigger and more expensive on average, so just looking at ownership percentage might not be whole picture.
Basically the 30-year FRM is closely related to the government subsidizing the mortgage industry, which most other countries don't do because it's ineffective at promoting home ownership. It's only effective at subsidizing the rich... and that's the opposite of "socialism" (in the sense that the OP construed the term).
The mortgage subsidy program tanked in the UK in the '80s and it isn't as successful as one might have hoped in the rest of Europe either, as The Economist thundered (in 2017):
IN THE 1980s Margaret Thatcher and Ronald Reagan were both proud of their efforts to expand home ownership. In Britain, Thatcher presided over a fire sale of state-owned homes to tenants. In America, Reagan deregulated financial markets and expanded mortgage lending. At the time both countries provided generous mortgage-related tax breaks, making it easier to flog homes to the masses.
Britain’s 1980s housing boom turned to bust; the mortgage subsidies that helped to fuel it were abolished. America still subsidises mortgages to the tune of $64bn a year, by allowing homeowners to deduct interest costs from their tax liabilities. [...]
Twelve European Union countries also include some form of mortgage-interest deduction (MID) in their tax code. The average European subsidy, however, is around a tenth of America’s—about 0.05% of GDP. The Netherlands is much the most generous, at 2% of GDP.
Evidence that MID schemes boost home ownership is scant. Recent research covering rich countries suggests it has no effect. Moreover, subsidising mortgages might actually hurt economies by helping inflate housing bubbles. The European Commission blames Sweden’s generous MID scheme for encouraging a household-debt binge and inflating house prices.
All but three EU countries have either reformed or repealed their MID schemes since the 2007-08 financial crisis. Ireland, Spain and Greece, for example, withdrew subsidies after suffering property busts. But withdrawing MID cannot on its own prevent property-market bubbles. According to The Economist’s round-up of global house prices, Australia, New Zealand and Canada all have overvalued housing markets despite the absence of mortgage subsidies [...].
Interest deductibility might be more defensible if its benefits were more evenly spread. In the Netherlands and elsewhere in Europe, the biggest benefits accrue to the richest householders, although many European countries tend to combine MID schemes with other generous housing welfare. In America 70% of the subsidy is claimed by the top 20% of earners. The country spends more on housing subsidies for 7m households earning over $200,000 a year than it does on the 55m making less than $50,000.
There is also the big fear that abolishing it (in the US) will lead to housing prices to fall. Which will be more of a problem there because of the lower welfare provisions in general
When the Netherlands adjusted its mortgage subsidy in 2012, house prices fell by 10%, but they are now climbing again at a decent clip. Prices in Britain are partly buoyed by the private rented sector where landlords have been able to deduct interest expenses from their rental income. The government began phasing out that deduction in April. That will have a big effect on the market.
And if you what The Economist writes on this is left-wing, you should read the New Yorker's article "The Mortgage Mistake". That's probably why the "more socialist" Europeans don't dig these measures as they mostly subsidize the rich.
Since the nineteen-thirties, the U.S. government has been committed to the idea that homeownership is an unalloyed good. The list of things the government does to support the housing industry is long. The Federal Housing Administration offers low-interest mortgages. Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, by repurchasing and guaranteeing mortgages, help hold down interest rates. Homeowners get a variety of tax breaks, including a mortgage-interest deduction and a property-tax write-off, which add up to more than two hundred billion dollars a year in lost tax revenue.
Yet it’s far from clear that these programs actually do much to increase the over-all number of homeowners. Other Western countries don’t have anything like our range of pro-housing enticements, and their rates of homeownership aren’t much different from ours. The main impact of the mortgage-interest deduction and other subsidies is not that they get people to buy houses. It’s that they get people to buy bigger, costlier houses than they otherwise would.
The bigger your mortgage, the larger the tax deduction you get. This is why real-estate agents, during the housing boom, advised their clients to buy as big a house as possible, since the government was helping them pay for it. The result is that almost all the economic benefits of the mortgage deduction go to people earning more than a hundred thousand dollars a year. The average middle-class homeowner saves little or no money. As Dennis Ventry, a tax expert and law professor at U.C. Davis, told me, “It’s a classic upside-down subsidy: it goes to all the wrong people. If you really want to help people buy homes who otherwise wouldn’t, we’ve chosen exactly the wrong tool.”
A 2015 paper noted that:
Government and quasi-government entities dominate mortgage finance in the U.S. Over the past
five years, the government-sponsored enterprises, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, and the Federal
Housing Administration have stood behind 80% of the newly originated mortgages.
This may have been a lesser proportion before the financial crisis, but I can't find data right now. But it looks like No Freddie and Fannie, no long fixed mortgages. Financial Times has a lot of articles deploring these two US institutions, by the way, so it's not only a left-wing critique.
More data on home ownership from an article not dealing with mortgages:
Homeownership allows families to build wealth, obtain a measure of financial security, and reduce financial risk in retirement. But in a recent paper published in the Journal of Economic Perspectives, we found that the United States’ homeownership rate has lost ground compared with other developed countries for which we could obtain a full dataset.
In 1990, the United States ranked 10th of the 18 countries, solidly in the middle of the group and, with a 63.9 percent homeownership rate, just above the average. By 2015, however, the US was the fifth lowest, with a rate of 63.7 percent, well below the 69.6 percent average.
Why is the US homeownership rate on the low end in the developed world? Between 1990 and 2015, 13 of the 18 countries increased their homeownership rates, while the US rate remained unchanged. Global interest rates fell, making access to homeownership easier.
[...]
Homeownership rates in the UK and the US are similar, even though the US has a mortgage interest deduction, while the UK subsidizes renting through its large stock of social and affordable rentals (about 17 percent of housing units are classified as “social or affordable rental stock”).
I don't have data on hand for that, but suspect however that US houses are bigger and more expensive on average, so just looking at ownership percentage might not be whole picture.
edited 2 mins ago
answered 1 hour ago
FizzFizz
14.8k23796
14.8k23796
add a comment |
add a comment |
Thanks for contributing an answer to Politics Stack Exchange!
- Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!
But avoid …
- Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.
- Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.
To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function ()
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fpolitics.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f40482%2fwhy-do-many-countries-not-offer-a-fixed-rate-30-year-mortgage%23new-answer', 'question_page');
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
5
It is a joke to say UK is a
more socialist countryafter Thatcherism that never ceased.– mootmoot
9 hours ago
5
"It struck me that the variety of federal assistance programs in the US surrounding home buying is a little spoken form of socialism." This is highly pedantic, but giveaways from the government do not constitute "socialism" anywhere; socialism requires public ownership of the means of production.
– Joe
7 hours ago
"The central bank raises interest rates, 4 million mortgage holders can't make their mortgage payments" Are they variable rate mortgages? Prepayment penalties are more common for fixed-rate mortgages.
– Acccumulation
3 hours ago
@Joe Correct. What the OP is talking about is called "asset-based welfare" or "property-based welfare" jstor.org/stable/41107504
– Fizz
2 hours ago
@Accumulation. My understanding is that there are about 10 million outstanding mortgages in the UK which average about 100,000 pounds a piece. Most borrowers take out loans that have two, five or ten year fixed rates periods and associated early repayment penalties.
– user2309840
1 hour ago