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Deal with toxic manager when you can't quit



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24















At my first job, I had the bad luck to get a manager that was, quite literally toxic.



This was to the point of him driving most of the team to quit.
In the three month I was there, he drove 5 people to quit (in a team composed of 12 persons), and was growing close to drive the rest of the team to quit.



To give a perspective of why he was toxic :



  • Constantly undermining every one's work by saying thing like "I could have done it in one hour" or "That was really easy, don't be too proud of yourself"

  • Constantly failing to meet deadlines, which resulted in everyone else (not him) to stay overtime to try and makes things right (We once had to wait 3 week, for a vital piece of information, and when he delivered it to us, we were one week behind the deadline).

  • Berating the team for using their rights, such as overtime pay.

Now at the time I was lucky enough to have the possibility to leave without too much consequences. But a colleague there was not so lucky, as he needed this job to sustain his family.



This made me wonder, if there exists any method to, at the very least, mitigate the stress induced by this kind of manager ? When quitting is not an option, and you have to stick with the job ?



As suggested a little more precision on the situation :



This happened in France, in a region where the supply of software developer is far higher than the demand, and leaving your job can lead to several months of job hunting.



In France when you quit, it is harder to get monetary compensation than if you were let go.



Also, there was only two people above this manager, there had already been complaints made, but they did not do anything, because he had way too much responsibilities, and the company was basically tied to him, for better or for worse.









share



















  • 1





    "This made me wonder, if there exists any method to, at the very least, mitigate the stress induced by this kind of manager ?" - meditation and/or yoga can help.

    – Joe Strazzere
    8 hours ago






  • 3





    Did the idea of actually finding a job before quitting pass his mind? Or isn't that allowed in France? I mean he can jobhunt for months and quit when he has a job and not before. It's a small sacrifice to rid himself of the manager.

    – Xander
    8 hours ago






  • 20





    So then, not "quite literally" toxic but rather figuratively toxic. Got it.

    – only_pro
    6 hours ago






  • 3





    @only_pro Didn't you get the memo? We now live in a world where literally can literally mean figuratively. merriam-webster.com/dictionary/literally Basically every major English dictionary now has an extra definition of literally that is based on the hyperbolic, non-literal use of "literally". It makes sense, when you consider the evolution of language and the function of a dictionary. Literally got abused to the point that it doesn't have to literally mean literally anymore.

    – JMac
    4 hours ago







  • 6





    @JMac I'm aware of that and how language evolves. I'm no prescriptivist, but it doesn't mean I can't make fun of dumb things people say. In this case, I'm only making fun of it because people are using a word to mean its exact opposite. That's not nearly as common in language evolution as other changes are. And it really does make the person seem uneducated (even though they may not be). It's just funny to me. It's even funnier when they say "quite literally", as though they're emphasizing how much they don't mean what they say :D

    – only_pro
    4 hours ago


















24















At my first job, I had the bad luck to get a manager that was, quite literally toxic.



This was to the point of him driving most of the team to quit.
In the three month I was there, he drove 5 people to quit (in a team composed of 12 persons), and was growing close to drive the rest of the team to quit.



To give a perspective of why he was toxic :



  • Constantly undermining every one's work by saying thing like "I could have done it in one hour" or "That was really easy, don't be too proud of yourself"

  • Constantly failing to meet deadlines, which resulted in everyone else (not him) to stay overtime to try and makes things right (We once had to wait 3 week, for a vital piece of information, and when he delivered it to us, we were one week behind the deadline).

  • Berating the team for using their rights, such as overtime pay.

Now at the time I was lucky enough to have the possibility to leave without too much consequences. But a colleague there was not so lucky, as he needed this job to sustain his family.



This made me wonder, if there exists any method to, at the very least, mitigate the stress induced by this kind of manager ? When quitting is not an option, and you have to stick with the job ?



As suggested a little more precision on the situation :



This happened in France, in a region where the supply of software developer is far higher than the demand, and leaving your job can lead to several months of job hunting.



In France when you quit, it is harder to get monetary compensation than if you were let go.



Also, there was only two people above this manager, there had already been complaints made, but they did not do anything, because he had way too much responsibilities, and the company was basically tied to him, for better or for worse.









share



















  • 1





    "This made me wonder, if there exists any method to, at the very least, mitigate the stress induced by this kind of manager ?" - meditation and/or yoga can help.

    – Joe Strazzere
    8 hours ago






  • 3





    Did the idea of actually finding a job before quitting pass his mind? Or isn't that allowed in France? I mean he can jobhunt for months and quit when he has a job and not before. It's a small sacrifice to rid himself of the manager.

    – Xander
    8 hours ago






  • 20





    So then, not "quite literally" toxic but rather figuratively toxic. Got it.

    – only_pro
    6 hours ago






  • 3





    @only_pro Didn't you get the memo? We now live in a world where literally can literally mean figuratively. merriam-webster.com/dictionary/literally Basically every major English dictionary now has an extra definition of literally that is based on the hyperbolic, non-literal use of "literally". It makes sense, when you consider the evolution of language and the function of a dictionary. Literally got abused to the point that it doesn't have to literally mean literally anymore.

    – JMac
    4 hours ago







  • 6





    @JMac I'm aware of that and how language evolves. I'm no prescriptivist, but it doesn't mean I can't make fun of dumb things people say. In this case, I'm only making fun of it because people are using a word to mean its exact opposite. That's not nearly as common in language evolution as other changes are. And it really does make the person seem uneducated (even though they may not be). It's just funny to me. It's even funnier when they say "quite literally", as though they're emphasizing how much they don't mean what they say :D

    – only_pro
    4 hours ago














24












24








24


2






At my first job, I had the bad luck to get a manager that was, quite literally toxic.



This was to the point of him driving most of the team to quit.
In the three month I was there, he drove 5 people to quit (in a team composed of 12 persons), and was growing close to drive the rest of the team to quit.



To give a perspective of why he was toxic :



  • Constantly undermining every one's work by saying thing like "I could have done it in one hour" or "That was really easy, don't be too proud of yourself"

  • Constantly failing to meet deadlines, which resulted in everyone else (not him) to stay overtime to try and makes things right (We once had to wait 3 week, for a vital piece of information, and when he delivered it to us, we were one week behind the deadline).

  • Berating the team for using their rights, such as overtime pay.

Now at the time I was lucky enough to have the possibility to leave without too much consequences. But a colleague there was not so lucky, as he needed this job to sustain his family.



This made me wonder, if there exists any method to, at the very least, mitigate the stress induced by this kind of manager ? When quitting is not an option, and you have to stick with the job ?



As suggested a little more precision on the situation :



This happened in France, in a region where the supply of software developer is far higher than the demand, and leaving your job can lead to several months of job hunting.



In France when you quit, it is harder to get monetary compensation than if you were let go.



Also, there was only two people above this manager, there had already been complaints made, but they did not do anything, because he had way too much responsibilities, and the company was basically tied to him, for better or for worse.









share
















At my first job, I had the bad luck to get a manager that was, quite literally toxic.



This was to the point of him driving most of the team to quit.
In the three month I was there, he drove 5 people to quit (in a team composed of 12 persons), and was growing close to drive the rest of the team to quit.



To give a perspective of why he was toxic :



  • Constantly undermining every one's work by saying thing like "I could have done it in one hour" or "That was really easy, don't be too proud of yourself"

  • Constantly failing to meet deadlines, which resulted in everyone else (not him) to stay overtime to try and makes things right (We once had to wait 3 week, for a vital piece of information, and when he delivered it to us, we were one week behind the deadline).

  • Berating the team for using their rights, such as overtime pay.

Now at the time I was lucky enough to have the possibility to leave without too much consequences. But a colleague there was not so lucky, as he needed this job to sustain his family.



This made me wonder, if there exists any method to, at the very least, mitigate the stress induced by this kind of manager ? When quitting is not an option, and you have to stick with the job ?



As suggested a little more precision on the situation :



This happened in France, in a region where the supply of software developer is far higher than the demand, and leaving your job can lead to several months of job hunting.



In France when you quit, it is harder to get monetary compensation than if you were let go.



Also, there was only two people above this manager, there had already been complaints made, but they did not do anything, because he had way too much responsibilities, and the company was basically tied to him, for better or for worse.







manager stress france





share














share












share



share








edited 8 hours ago









Chris E

41.3k24131169




41.3k24131169










asked 9 hours ago









user3399user3399

25626




25626







  • 1





    "This made me wonder, if there exists any method to, at the very least, mitigate the stress induced by this kind of manager ?" - meditation and/or yoga can help.

    – Joe Strazzere
    8 hours ago






  • 3





    Did the idea of actually finding a job before quitting pass his mind? Or isn't that allowed in France? I mean he can jobhunt for months and quit when he has a job and not before. It's a small sacrifice to rid himself of the manager.

    – Xander
    8 hours ago






  • 20





    So then, not "quite literally" toxic but rather figuratively toxic. Got it.

    – only_pro
    6 hours ago






  • 3





    @only_pro Didn't you get the memo? We now live in a world where literally can literally mean figuratively. merriam-webster.com/dictionary/literally Basically every major English dictionary now has an extra definition of literally that is based on the hyperbolic, non-literal use of "literally". It makes sense, when you consider the evolution of language and the function of a dictionary. Literally got abused to the point that it doesn't have to literally mean literally anymore.

    – JMac
    4 hours ago







  • 6





    @JMac I'm aware of that and how language evolves. I'm no prescriptivist, but it doesn't mean I can't make fun of dumb things people say. In this case, I'm only making fun of it because people are using a word to mean its exact opposite. That's not nearly as common in language evolution as other changes are. And it really does make the person seem uneducated (even though they may not be). It's just funny to me. It's even funnier when they say "quite literally", as though they're emphasizing how much they don't mean what they say :D

    – only_pro
    4 hours ago













  • 1





    "This made me wonder, if there exists any method to, at the very least, mitigate the stress induced by this kind of manager ?" - meditation and/or yoga can help.

    – Joe Strazzere
    8 hours ago






  • 3





    Did the idea of actually finding a job before quitting pass his mind? Or isn't that allowed in France? I mean he can jobhunt for months and quit when he has a job and not before. It's a small sacrifice to rid himself of the manager.

    – Xander
    8 hours ago






  • 20





    So then, not "quite literally" toxic but rather figuratively toxic. Got it.

    – only_pro
    6 hours ago






  • 3





    @only_pro Didn't you get the memo? We now live in a world where literally can literally mean figuratively. merriam-webster.com/dictionary/literally Basically every major English dictionary now has an extra definition of literally that is based on the hyperbolic, non-literal use of "literally". It makes sense, when you consider the evolution of language and the function of a dictionary. Literally got abused to the point that it doesn't have to literally mean literally anymore.

    – JMac
    4 hours ago







  • 6





    @JMac I'm aware of that and how language evolves. I'm no prescriptivist, but it doesn't mean I can't make fun of dumb things people say. In this case, I'm only making fun of it because people are using a word to mean its exact opposite. That's not nearly as common in language evolution as other changes are. And it really does make the person seem uneducated (even though they may not be). It's just funny to me. It's even funnier when they say "quite literally", as though they're emphasizing how much they don't mean what they say :D

    – only_pro
    4 hours ago








1




1





"This made me wonder, if there exists any method to, at the very least, mitigate the stress induced by this kind of manager ?" - meditation and/or yoga can help.

– Joe Strazzere
8 hours ago





"This made me wonder, if there exists any method to, at the very least, mitigate the stress induced by this kind of manager ?" - meditation and/or yoga can help.

– Joe Strazzere
8 hours ago




3




3





Did the idea of actually finding a job before quitting pass his mind? Or isn't that allowed in France? I mean he can jobhunt for months and quit when he has a job and not before. It's a small sacrifice to rid himself of the manager.

– Xander
8 hours ago





Did the idea of actually finding a job before quitting pass his mind? Or isn't that allowed in France? I mean he can jobhunt for months and quit when he has a job and not before. It's a small sacrifice to rid himself of the manager.

– Xander
8 hours ago




20




20





So then, not "quite literally" toxic but rather figuratively toxic. Got it.

– only_pro
6 hours ago





So then, not "quite literally" toxic but rather figuratively toxic. Got it.

– only_pro
6 hours ago




3




3





@only_pro Didn't you get the memo? We now live in a world where literally can literally mean figuratively. merriam-webster.com/dictionary/literally Basically every major English dictionary now has an extra definition of literally that is based on the hyperbolic, non-literal use of "literally". It makes sense, when you consider the evolution of language and the function of a dictionary. Literally got abused to the point that it doesn't have to literally mean literally anymore.

– JMac
4 hours ago






@only_pro Didn't you get the memo? We now live in a world where literally can literally mean figuratively. merriam-webster.com/dictionary/literally Basically every major English dictionary now has an extra definition of literally that is based on the hyperbolic, non-literal use of "literally". It makes sense, when you consider the evolution of language and the function of a dictionary. Literally got abused to the point that it doesn't have to literally mean literally anymore.

– JMac
4 hours ago





6




6





@JMac I'm aware of that and how language evolves. I'm no prescriptivist, but it doesn't mean I can't make fun of dumb things people say. In this case, I'm only making fun of it because people are using a word to mean its exact opposite. That's not nearly as common in language evolution as other changes are. And it really does make the person seem uneducated (even though they may not be). It's just funny to me. It's even funnier when they say "quite literally", as though they're emphasizing how much they don't mean what they say :D

– only_pro
4 hours ago






@JMac I'm aware of that and how language evolves. I'm no prescriptivist, but it doesn't mean I can't make fun of dumb things people say. In this case, I'm only making fun of it because people are using a word to mean its exact opposite. That's not nearly as common in language evolution as other changes are. And it really does make the person seem uneducated (even though they may not be). It's just funny to me. It's even funnier when they say "quite literally", as though they're emphasizing how much they don't mean what they say :D

– only_pro
4 hours ago











8 Answers
8






active

oldest

votes


















37














First of all, quitting is always an option. What would your colleague do if the company suddenly closed its doors? (This happens, and the employees are usually the last to see it coming).



Your colleague needs to stop making excuses and start job hunting for real. It may take a long time, but there are better jobs and non-toxic managers out there.



In the meantime, there are a couple of things your colleague can do:




Constantly undermining every one's work by saying thing like "I could have done it in one hour"




  • Remember that this person is toxic and whatever comes out of their mouth is not relevant or meaningful. Stop caring about this manager's opinion.


Constantly failing to meet deadlines




  • Keep a written log of what was promised, when, and by whom. When anything happens, log that as well (what, when, by whom). It's a major pain in the rear to do, but when the grand boss comes around looking for necks to choke it will not only protect you, it may shine some unwanted light on the toxic manager.


Berating the team for using their rights, such as overtime pay




  • Same as above - keep a log about what was earned, paid, etc. and remember that the babbling of fools is best ignored as much as possible.

  • If the colleague is paid hourly, then not receiving overtime pay is something to take up with HR or the union, if there is one. If the colleague is salaried and this is "comp time", then the right answer might be to stop working the overtime to begin with (so there's nothing to comp)





share|improve this answer


















  • 7





    If the company closed its door, this employee would receive monetary compensation (this happens in france) it would not be a lot, but enough to sustain his family. If he had quit, he would not have received any kind of money before a minimum of 3 month. He was actively looking, but it was in a region where the software development supply was far, far higher than the demand. Moving was not an option for them.

    – user3399
    9 hours ago







  • 4





    That's good to know. In the US, it's possible for the company to close and the employees are suddenly out of work with no warning and no compensation.

    – Dan Pichelman
    9 hours ago






  • 1





    Perhaps the colleague can find remote work? In software development it's not always necessary to be in the same room to produce code.

    – Dan Pichelman
    9 hours ago











  • Also all details and proofs of the overtime work can later be used to eventually receive compensation once your colleague has found a new job and left the old one. Just consult your local authority regarding labour.

    – Ister
    6 hours ago







  • 2





    @DanPichelman That's not true in the US. We get benefits via unemployment insurance, funded by specific state and federal taxes on employers. Same situation: quitting voluntarily disqualifies you for unemployment.

    – user71659
    5 hours ago


















26














To reduce the stress: Stop caring. After 8 hours work a day, stop working. If the manager makes it hard to leave, stop working and get overtime pay without working. If he says “I could have done that in an hour” you say “of course you could” so he doesn’t see you getting upset (because that’s what he wants) while thinking to yourself what you actually think of him. Same if he says “that was really easy”, you say “absolutely, that was really easy, you could have done that in an hour”.



He knows what he is, and you know what he is, so make it clear without saying anything bad that you know and you don’t care. It’s only stress if you care.



@strader: You wouldn't feel belittled if your five year old son said "I could have done that in an hour". Once you change your mental attitude, that boss isn't any more clever than your five year old son, so you don't feel belittled. You know which one is the child and which one the adult.






share|improve this answer




















  • 6





    I disagree, being belittled on regular basis is stressful for any person.

    – Strader
    9 hours ago






  • 8





    The best answer to "I could have done that in an hour" is "then you don't need me to do it". If he follows that by suggesting that you should quit if you think so then the answer should be "I don't think so, but if you do, you know what to do". This, of course, does not help in the stress mitigation issue, but at least puts limits into his insolence and allows to move forward onto the inevitable outcome.

    – busman
    8 hours ago







  • 2





    +1 from me. Just remember nothing is forever and this too shall pass. Instead of thinking "How am I going to live like this?" change your mindset and remember it is only a period of time (just like any other period of time of your life!). Just do your work, start looking for something else, and try not to think about it much. It is not your life after all, it is just a job and there are millions of them out there. It is not the only job in the world and they are not all like this!

    – Koray Tugay
    5 hours ago











  • +1, lol, if the job is terrible what do they expect. I think as a manager, you have to lower your expectations on employees when the job is miserable.

    – Mark Rogers
    5 hours ago







  • 1





    @Strader I'm pretty sure that is not true. Further, it is not true most commonly when people don't care what the belittling person is saying. The tricky part for many (but not everyone) is the "stop caring" part.

    – Derek Elkins
    3 hours ago


















5














1) As has been said elsewhere, quitting is always an option. It depends on what you are willing to sacrifice, but quitting is never "not an option".



2) I don't know anything about French work culture, but in North America where I am also a software developer like your colleague, it is perfectly reasonable for an employee to job hunt while working. You don't have to quit and be out of a job before you start job hunting; when you know that you want to leave, start looking for another job, and then you can seamlessly move from one job to the next easily.



My advice to your coworker (former co-worker?) would be to start job hunting ASAP, while continuing to work. He should continue to do his job to the best of his ability, and try to ignore the stupid stuff from his manager as best he can in the meantime, and then as soon as he finds something else, he should jump ship.






share|improve this answer






























    2














    I have unfortunately been in this situation. I had been with the company for 2 years longer than my supervisor and she was totally clueless and attempting to fire all of her own employees to the point that I was the last developer standing (sounds kind of crazy when your job is to supervise those employees). She had actually written me up twice for things that were to basically cover her own issues. While this was going on I basically quit talking to her any more than I had to and had my headphone on at all times and sent an email to the HR department and the president of the company informing them of everything she had been doing. Luckily they finally saw her for what she was and she was the one fired in the end and I stayed on at that company for a few more years.



    The basics being, do your job, document everything, and sooner or later those at the top will see what is happening and justice will be served, and if not hopefully a new position can be found soon.






    share|improve this answer






























      2














      The immature way to deal with toxic people who you can't remove from your life, assuming you've already had a sit down with them and explained why their behavior is unacceptable, is to cut them down back.



      For example, "I could have done that in an hour" should be answered with something like "You sure you're sober?" or "I'd like to see you try".



      Refusing to pay for work should be met with "No money, no honey" and followed up by you not showing up to work the next day for whatever reason - probably sick time, it honestly doesn't matter if it gets approved or not because you're sending a message.



      That piece of information you didn't get that put the entire team behind schedule should be something that the manager is never allowed to forget. Bring it up every time it might be relevant.



      This is the wrong thing to do, but if you can't quit and really want things to work out, you're going to have to discipline your manager.



      The professional thing to do is to document this behavior, send it to your managers superiors even though you know they won't do anything, and find another job. Look for a job while you still have one and then stop working with the toxic manager as soon as you get a new job. People like this are going to have a much bigger impact on your career than they have any right to if you keep working for them.






      share|improve this answer

























      • Unfortunately this (especially not showing up) might lead to negative consequences up to firing the employee on their fault (which would probably also leave them with no compensation).

        – Ister
        6 hours ago






      • 2





        Do you really need the word, "American" in the first sentence? The sentence seems correct for immature Canadians/Europeans/Australians, et al., too.

        – donjuedo
        5 hours ago











      • @Ister it should, but it won't. If there's an exit interview at your company this manager will get fired over not paying you over time and the like. Managers generally have more to lose too. Given the rest of this toxic manager's stats, 50% of a team you count yourself, the manager won't do anything. The toxic manager really can't do anything without hurting themselves.

        – Steve
        5 hours ago






      • 3





        @Steve, I'm sorry I was not clear. Please drop the term "American" in your answer. It is inflammatory, unnecessary, and not relevant to the OP question or your answer. Thanks.

        – donjuedo
        5 hours ago







      • 2





        @Steve The original poster is in France. It's not relevant to include what an "immature" response would be in America. Most of this response is thus irrelevant. Please clean up this answer to stay relevant.

        – acidnbass
        5 hours ago


















      0














      I agree with most of the answers here. In particular, quitting is always an option, be job hunting already, and stop caring about what the manager is saying (except, obviously, that which is necessary to do your job).



      The only addition here is to operationalize the "stop caring" part a bit. The people for whom simply telling them to stop caring is enough to accomplish that are not the people who need to be told it as they will have already stopped caring.



      My suggestion is to reframe the situation in your head. Specifically, reframe the manager as just an obstactle. Dealing with the manager's crap is just an (unpleasant) part of the job, no different from dealing with a broken printer, say. Sure it's annoying, but it isn't personal and your mind goes to questions like "Can I fix the printer? Can I get the printer to do what I want despite being broken? Can I work around the printer? Can I accomplish what I need without the printer?" You don't wonder why the printer is so unfair to you.



      Here's a more or less equivalent alternative reframing. View your job like a video game. You're trying to do the best job you can. Your manager is like a bad guy trying to thwart you. Not a boss, mind you, just one of the regularly occurring goombas. You're not personally aggrieved by the fact that the goombas in Mario are trying to impede you. You just think about the best strategy to get past them. Again, your mindset when playing a video game is that given this is the way the world is set up, what is the best strategy to navigate through it?



      A third that's slightly different but mostly the same is to imagine your manager as a big parrot. If a parrot said belittling things to you, you wouldn't take it personally. The parrot is just making noise, and what it says has much more to do with it than you. This is likely true for your manager too.



      The common thread through all of these, just to lay it out, is that you are intentionally dehumanizing your manager. Doing this removes most of the weight from what they say.



      Clearly, this is not an ideal situation, and I'm not suggesting the above in lieu of finding a better job.






      share|improve this answer






























        0















        Constantly failing to meet deadlines, which resulted in everyone else (not him) to stay overtime to try and makes things right (We once had to wait 3 week, for a vital piece of information, and when he delivered it to us, we were one week behind the deadline).




        There's a very simple answer to this. The deadline slips. And as much as managers love to say "but that's not acceptable", the answer is simply "but it's going to happen".



        And you don't just tell him this. You copy his manager, and his manager's manager. You say what the original plans were, and that because your manager started you all on this late, it'll take that long. And you make sure it takes that long!



        For bonus points, you can say "we're all prepared to do overtime to help out the company so it'll only slip by two weeks". Then you look proactive and helpful - but the deadline slip still happens, and management know it's down to your boss.




        Berating the team for using their rights, such as overtime pay.




        Now this is crazy stuff. If your contract says you get this, then you get it. If he pushes it, the next step is to call HR and say "John thinks we shouldn't be claiming overtime pay. Please can you tell me what our contract says? And please can you email that section of the contract to me and John, so we know for the future?" Especially getting email evidence.






        share|improve this answer






























          -2














          Just have a very short 1:1; tell your manager that you fell in love with him, that you have finally given up on having a relationship and just wanted to take this off your chest. Practice a lot so that you can say this with a straight face.



          Once you have declared your love, he will no longer be able to avoid feeling weird and uncomfortable every time he looks at you, forever. With some luck, communication will be cut to a minimum and you will never be asked again to stay in the office a minute longer than necessary. It's not against the law, and if he tries to fire you to spare himself the embarrassment you will get compensated more than adequately.
          It's a WIN-WIN, but both wins are for you.






          share|improve this answer


















          • 9





            This can go wrong in so many ways.

            – Colin 't Hart
            4 hours ago






          • 1





            That requires a lot of courage and good acting to go well. And even if it does, the boss is likely to force incidents that would allow him to fire the employee under whatever is the french equivalent of fair cause, even if he actually fires the person without fair cause claim. I would say this is reasonable advice if the person wants to be fired or is willing to risk it, not if he needs to stay.

            – Mefitico
            3 hours ago






          • 1





            upvote for the lolz, though.

            – Mefitico
            3 hours ago






          • 3





            In the US this would probably constitute sexual harassment.

            – catfood
            3 hours ago











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          8 Answers
          8






          active

          oldest

          votes








          8 Answers
          8






          active

          oldest

          votes









          active

          oldest

          votes






          active

          oldest

          votes









          37














          First of all, quitting is always an option. What would your colleague do if the company suddenly closed its doors? (This happens, and the employees are usually the last to see it coming).



          Your colleague needs to stop making excuses and start job hunting for real. It may take a long time, but there are better jobs and non-toxic managers out there.



          In the meantime, there are a couple of things your colleague can do:




          Constantly undermining every one's work by saying thing like "I could have done it in one hour"




          • Remember that this person is toxic and whatever comes out of their mouth is not relevant or meaningful. Stop caring about this manager's opinion.


          Constantly failing to meet deadlines




          • Keep a written log of what was promised, when, and by whom. When anything happens, log that as well (what, when, by whom). It's a major pain in the rear to do, but when the grand boss comes around looking for necks to choke it will not only protect you, it may shine some unwanted light on the toxic manager.


          Berating the team for using their rights, such as overtime pay




          • Same as above - keep a log about what was earned, paid, etc. and remember that the babbling of fools is best ignored as much as possible.

          • If the colleague is paid hourly, then not receiving overtime pay is something to take up with HR or the union, if there is one. If the colleague is salaried and this is "comp time", then the right answer might be to stop working the overtime to begin with (so there's nothing to comp)





          share|improve this answer


















          • 7





            If the company closed its door, this employee would receive monetary compensation (this happens in france) it would not be a lot, but enough to sustain his family. If he had quit, he would not have received any kind of money before a minimum of 3 month. He was actively looking, but it was in a region where the software development supply was far, far higher than the demand. Moving was not an option for them.

            – user3399
            9 hours ago







          • 4





            That's good to know. In the US, it's possible for the company to close and the employees are suddenly out of work with no warning and no compensation.

            – Dan Pichelman
            9 hours ago






          • 1





            Perhaps the colleague can find remote work? In software development it's not always necessary to be in the same room to produce code.

            – Dan Pichelman
            9 hours ago











          • Also all details and proofs of the overtime work can later be used to eventually receive compensation once your colleague has found a new job and left the old one. Just consult your local authority regarding labour.

            – Ister
            6 hours ago







          • 2





            @DanPichelman That's not true in the US. We get benefits via unemployment insurance, funded by specific state and federal taxes on employers. Same situation: quitting voluntarily disqualifies you for unemployment.

            – user71659
            5 hours ago















          37














          First of all, quitting is always an option. What would your colleague do if the company suddenly closed its doors? (This happens, and the employees are usually the last to see it coming).



          Your colleague needs to stop making excuses and start job hunting for real. It may take a long time, but there are better jobs and non-toxic managers out there.



          In the meantime, there are a couple of things your colleague can do:




          Constantly undermining every one's work by saying thing like "I could have done it in one hour"




          • Remember that this person is toxic and whatever comes out of their mouth is not relevant or meaningful. Stop caring about this manager's opinion.


          Constantly failing to meet deadlines




          • Keep a written log of what was promised, when, and by whom. When anything happens, log that as well (what, when, by whom). It's a major pain in the rear to do, but when the grand boss comes around looking for necks to choke it will not only protect you, it may shine some unwanted light on the toxic manager.


          Berating the team for using their rights, such as overtime pay




          • Same as above - keep a log about what was earned, paid, etc. and remember that the babbling of fools is best ignored as much as possible.

          • If the colleague is paid hourly, then not receiving overtime pay is something to take up with HR or the union, if there is one. If the colleague is salaried and this is "comp time", then the right answer might be to stop working the overtime to begin with (so there's nothing to comp)





          share|improve this answer


















          • 7





            If the company closed its door, this employee would receive monetary compensation (this happens in france) it would not be a lot, but enough to sustain his family. If he had quit, he would not have received any kind of money before a minimum of 3 month. He was actively looking, but it was in a region where the software development supply was far, far higher than the demand. Moving was not an option for them.

            – user3399
            9 hours ago







          • 4





            That's good to know. In the US, it's possible for the company to close and the employees are suddenly out of work with no warning and no compensation.

            – Dan Pichelman
            9 hours ago






          • 1





            Perhaps the colleague can find remote work? In software development it's not always necessary to be in the same room to produce code.

            – Dan Pichelman
            9 hours ago











          • Also all details and proofs of the overtime work can later be used to eventually receive compensation once your colleague has found a new job and left the old one. Just consult your local authority regarding labour.

            – Ister
            6 hours ago







          • 2





            @DanPichelman That's not true in the US. We get benefits via unemployment insurance, funded by specific state and federal taxes on employers. Same situation: quitting voluntarily disqualifies you for unemployment.

            – user71659
            5 hours ago













          37












          37








          37







          First of all, quitting is always an option. What would your colleague do if the company suddenly closed its doors? (This happens, and the employees are usually the last to see it coming).



          Your colleague needs to stop making excuses and start job hunting for real. It may take a long time, but there are better jobs and non-toxic managers out there.



          In the meantime, there are a couple of things your colleague can do:




          Constantly undermining every one's work by saying thing like "I could have done it in one hour"




          • Remember that this person is toxic and whatever comes out of their mouth is not relevant or meaningful. Stop caring about this manager's opinion.


          Constantly failing to meet deadlines




          • Keep a written log of what was promised, when, and by whom. When anything happens, log that as well (what, when, by whom). It's a major pain in the rear to do, but when the grand boss comes around looking for necks to choke it will not only protect you, it may shine some unwanted light on the toxic manager.


          Berating the team for using their rights, such as overtime pay




          • Same as above - keep a log about what was earned, paid, etc. and remember that the babbling of fools is best ignored as much as possible.

          • If the colleague is paid hourly, then not receiving overtime pay is something to take up with HR or the union, if there is one. If the colleague is salaried and this is "comp time", then the right answer might be to stop working the overtime to begin with (so there's nothing to comp)





          share|improve this answer













          First of all, quitting is always an option. What would your colleague do if the company suddenly closed its doors? (This happens, and the employees are usually the last to see it coming).



          Your colleague needs to stop making excuses and start job hunting for real. It may take a long time, but there are better jobs and non-toxic managers out there.



          In the meantime, there are a couple of things your colleague can do:




          Constantly undermining every one's work by saying thing like "I could have done it in one hour"




          • Remember that this person is toxic and whatever comes out of their mouth is not relevant or meaningful. Stop caring about this manager's opinion.


          Constantly failing to meet deadlines




          • Keep a written log of what was promised, when, and by whom. When anything happens, log that as well (what, when, by whom). It's a major pain in the rear to do, but when the grand boss comes around looking for necks to choke it will not only protect you, it may shine some unwanted light on the toxic manager.


          Berating the team for using their rights, such as overtime pay




          • Same as above - keep a log about what was earned, paid, etc. and remember that the babbling of fools is best ignored as much as possible.

          • If the colleague is paid hourly, then not receiving overtime pay is something to take up with HR or the union, if there is one. If the colleague is salaried and this is "comp time", then the right answer might be to stop working the overtime to begin with (so there's nothing to comp)






          share|improve this answer












          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer










          answered 9 hours ago









          Dan PichelmanDan Pichelman

          28.8k147894




          28.8k147894







          • 7





            If the company closed its door, this employee would receive monetary compensation (this happens in france) it would not be a lot, but enough to sustain his family. If he had quit, he would not have received any kind of money before a minimum of 3 month. He was actively looking, but it was in a region where the software development supply was far, far higher than the demand. Moving was not an option for them.

            – user3399
            9 hours ago







          • 4





            That's good to know. In the US, it's possible for the company to close and the employees are suddenly out of work with no warning and no compensation.

            – Dan Pichelman
            9 hours ago






          • 1





            Perhaps the colleague can find remote work? In software development it's not always necessary to be in the same room to produce code.

            – Dan Pichelman
            9 hours ago











          • Also all details and proofs of the overtime work can later be used to eventually receive compensation once your colleague has found a new job and left the old one. Just consult your local authority regarding labour.

            – Ister
            6 hours ago







          • 2





            @DanPichelman That's not true in the US. We get benefits via unemployment insurance, funded by specific state and federal taxes on employers. Same situation: quitting voluntarily disqualifies you for unemployment.

            – user71659
            5 hours ago












          • 7





            If the company closed its door, this employee would receive monetary compensation (this happens in france) it would not be a lot, but enough to sustain his family. If he had quit, he would not have received any kind of money before a minimum of 3 month. He was actively looking, but it was in a region where the software development supply was far, far higher than the demand. Moving was not an option for them.

            – user3399
            9 hours ago







          • 4





            That's good to know. In the US, it's possible for the company to close and the employees are suddenly out of work with no warning and no compensation.

            – Dan Pichelman
            9 hours ago






          • 1





            Perhaps the colleague can find remote work? In software development it's not always necessary to be in the same room to produce code.

            – Dan Pichelman
            9 hours ago











          • Also all details and proofs of the overtime work can later be used to eventually receive compensation once your colleague has found a new job and left the old one. Just consult your local authority regarding labour.

            – Ister
            6 hours ago







          • 2





            @DanPichelman That's not true in the US. We get benefits via unemployment insurance, funded by specific state and federal taxes on employers. Same situation: quitting voluntarily disqualifies you for unemployment.

            – user71659
            5 hours ago







          7




          7





          If the company closed its door, this employee would receive monetary compensation (this happens in france) it would not be a lot, but enough to sustain his family. If he had quit, he would not have received any kind of money before a minimum of 3 month. He was actively looking, but it was in a region where the software development supply was far, far higher than the demand. Moving was not an option for them.

          – user3399
          9 hours ago






          If the company closed its door, this employee would receive monetary compensation (this happens in france) it would not be a lot, but enough to sustain his family. If he had quit, he would not have received any kind of money before a minimum of 3 month. He was actively looking, but it was in a region where the software development supply was far, far higher than the demand. Moving was not an option for them.

          – user3399
          9 hours ago





          4




          4





          That's good to know. In the US, it's possible for the company to close and the employees are suddenly out of work with no warning and no compensation.

          – Dan Pichelman
          9 hours ago





          That's good to know. In the US, it's possible for the company to close and the employees are suddenly out of work with no warning and no compensation.

          – Dan Pichelman
          9 hours ago




          1




          1





          Perhaps the colleague can find remote work? In software development it's not always necessary to be in the same room to produce code.

          – Dan Pichelman
          9 hours ago





          Perhaps the colleague can find remote work? In software development it's not always necessary to be in the same room to produce code.

          – Dan Pichelman
          9 hours ago













          Also all details and proofs of the overtime work can later be used to eventually receive compensation once your colleague has found a new job and left the old one. Just consult your local authority regarding labour.

          – Ister
          6 hours ago






          Also all details and proofs of the overtime work can later be used to eventually receive compensation once your colleague has found a new job and left the old one. Just consult your local authority regarding labour.

          – Ister
          6 hours ago





          2




          2





          @DanPichelman That's not true in the US. We get benefits via unemployment insurance, funded by specific state and federal taxes on employers. Same situation: quitting voluntarily disqualifies you for unemployment.

          – user71659
          5 hours ago





          @DanPichelman That's not true in the US. We get benefits via unemployment insurance, funded by specific state and federal taxes on employers. Same situation: quitting voluntarily disqualifies you for unemployment.

          – user71659
          5 hours ago













          26














          To reduce the stress: Stop caring. After 8 hours work a day, stop working. If the manager makes it hard to leave, stop working and get overtime pay without working. If he says “I could have done that in an hour” you say “of course you could” so he doesn’t see you getting upset (because that’s what he wants) while thinking to yourself what you actually think of him. Same if he says “that was really easy”, you say “absolutely, that was really easy, you could have done that in an hour”.



          He knows what he is, and you know what he is, so make it clear without saying anything bad that you know and you don’t care. It’s only stress if you care.



          @strader: You wouldn't feel belittled if your five year old son said "I could have done that in an hour". Once you change your mental attitude, that boss isn't any more clever than your five year old son, so you don't feel belittled. You know which one is the child and which one the adult.






          share|improve this answer




















          • 6





            I disagree, being belittled on regular basis is stressful for any person.

            – Strader
            9 hours ago






          • 8





            The best answer to "I could have done that in an hour" is "then you don't need me to do it". If he follows that by suggesting that you should quit if you think so then the answer should be "I don't think so, but if you do, you know what to do". This, of course, does not help in the stress mitigation issue, but at least puts limits into his insolence and allows to move forward onto the inevitable outcome.

            – busman
            8 hours ago







          • 2





            +1 from me. Just remember nothing is forever and this too shall pass. Instead of thinking "How am I going to live like this?" change your mindset and remember it is only a period of time (just like any other period of time of your life!). Just do your work, start looking for something else, and try not to think about it much. It is not your life after all, it is just a job and there are millions of them out there. It is not the only job in the world and they are not all like this!

            – Koray Tugay
            5 hours ago











          • +1, lol, if the job is terrible what do they expect. I think as a manager, you have to lower your expectations on employees when the job is miserable.

            – Mark Rogers
            5 hours ago







          • 1





            @Strader I'm pretty sure that is not true. Further, it is not true most commonly when people don't care what the belittling person is saying. The tricky part for many (but not everyone) is the "stop caring" part.

            – Derek Elkins
            3 hours ago















          26














          To reduce the stress: Stop caring. After 8 hours work a day, stop working. If the manager makes it hard to leave, stop working and get overtime pay without working. If he says “I could have done that in an hour” you say “of course you could” so he doesn’t see you getting upset (because that’s what he wants) while thinking to yourself what you actually think of him. Same if he says “that was really easy”, you say “absolutely, that was really easy, you could have done that in an hour”.



          He knows what he is, and you know what he is, so make it clear without saying anything bad that you know and you don’t care. It’s only stress if you care.



          @strader: You wouldn't feel belittled if your five year old son said "I could have done that in an hour". Once you change your mental attitude, that boss isn't any more clever than your five year old son, so you don't feel belittled. You know which one is the child and which one the adult.






          share|improve this answer




















          • 6





            I disagree, being belittled on regular basis is stressful for any person.

            – Strader
            9 hours ago






          • 8





            The best answer to "I could have done that in an hour" is "then you don't need me to do it". If he follows that by suggesting that you should quit if you think so then the answer should be "I don't think so, but if you do, you know what to do". This, of course, does not help in the stress mitigation issue, but at least puts limits into his insolence and allows to move forward onto the inevitable outcome.

            – busman
            8 hours ago







          • 2





            +1 from me. Just remember nothing is forever and this too shall pass. Instead of thinking "How am I going to live like this?" change your mindset and remember it is only a period of time (just like any other period of time of your life!). Just do your work, start looking for something else, and try not to think about it much. It is not your life after all, it is just a job and there are millions of them out there. It is not the only job in the world and they are not all like this!

            – Koray Tugay
            5 hours ago











          • +1, lol, if the job is terrible what do they expect. I think as a manager, you have to lower your expectations on employees when the job is miserable.

            – Mark Rogers
            5 hours ago







          • 1





            @Strader I'm pretty sure that is not true. Further, it is not true most commonly when people don't care what the belittling person is saying. The tricky part for many (but not everyone) is the "stop caring" part.

            – Derek Elkins
            3 hours ago













          26












          26








          26







          To reduce the stress: Stop caring. After 8 hours work a day, stop working. If the manager makes it hard to leave, stop working and get overtime pay without working. If he says “I could have done that in an hour” you say “of course you could” so he doesn’t see you getting upset (because that’s what he wants) while thinking to yourself what you actually think of him. Same if he says “that was really easy”, you say “absolutely, that was really easy, you could have done that in an hour”.



          He knows what he is, and you know what he is, so make it clear without saying anything bad that you know and you don’t care. It’s only stress if you care.



          @strader: You wouldn't feel belittled if your five year old son said "I could have done that in an hour". Once you change your mental attitude, that boss isn't any more clever than your five year old son, so you don't feel belittled. You know which one is the child and which one the adult.






          share|improve this answer















          To reduce the stress: Stop caring. After 8 hours work a day, stop working. If the manager makes it hard to leave, stop working and get overtime pay without working. If he says “I could have done that in an hour” you say “of course you could” so he doesn’t see you getting upset (because that’s what he wants) while thinking to yourself what you actually think of him. Same if he says “that was really easy”, you say “absolutely, that was really easy, you could have done that in an hour”.



          He knows what he is, and you know what he is, so make it clear without saying anything bad that you know and you don’t care. It’s only stress if you care.



          @strader: You wouldn't feel belittled if your five year old son said "I could have done that in an hour". Once you change your mental attitude, that boss isn't any more clever than your five year old son, so you don't feel belittled. You know which one is the child and which one the adult.







          share|improve this answer














          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer








          edited 28 mins ago

























          answered 9 hours ago









          gnasher729gnasher729

          91.5k42163287




          91.5k42163287







          • 6





            I disagree, being belittled on regular basis is stressful for any person.

            – Strader
            9 hours ago






          • 8





            The best answer to "I could have done that in an hour" is "then you don't need me to do it". If he follows that by suggesting that you should quit if you think so then the answer should be "I don't think so, but if you do, you know what to do". This, of course, does not help in the stress mitigation issue, but at least puts limits into his insolence and allows to move forward onto the inevitable outcome.

            – busman
            8 hours ago







          • 2





            +1 from me. Just remember nothing is forever and this too shall pass. Instead of thinking "How am I going to live like this?" change your mindset and remember it is only a period of time (just like any other period of time of your life!). Just do your work, start looking for something else, and try not to think about it much. It is not your life after all, it is just a job and there are millions of them out there. It is not the only job in the world and they are not all like this!

            – Koray Tugay
            5 hours ago











          • +1, lol, if the job is terrible what do they expect. I think as a manager, you have to lower your expectations on employees when the job is miserable.

            – Mark Rogers
            5 hours ago







          • 1





            @Strader I'm pretty sure that is not true. Further, it is not true most commonly when people don't care what the belittling person is saying. The tricky part for many (but not everyone) is the "stop caring" part.

            – Derek Elkins
            3 hours ago












          • 6





            I disagree, being belittled on regular basis is stressful for any person.

            – Strader
            9 hours ago






          • 8





            The best answer to "I could have done that in an hour" is "then you don't need me to do it". If he follows that by suggesting that you should quit if you think so then the answer should be "I don't think so, but if you do, you know what to do". This, of course, does not help in the stress mitigation issue, but at least puts limits into his insolence and allows to move forward onto the inevitable outcome.

            – busman
            8 hours ago







          • 2





            +1 from me. Just remember nothing is forever and this too shall pass. Instead of thinking "How am I going to live like this?" change your mindset and remember it is only a period of time (just like any other period of time of your life!). Just do your work, start looking for something else, and try not to think about it much. It is not your life after all, it is just a job and there are millions of them out there. It is not the only job in the world and they are not all like this!

            – Koray Tugay
            5 hours ago











          • +1, lol, if the job is terrible what do they expect. I think as a manager, you have to lower your expectations on employees when the job is miserable.

            – Mark Rogers
            5 hours ago







          • 1





            @Strader I'm pretty sure that is not true. Further, it is not true most commonly when people don't care what the belittling person is saying. The tricky part for many (but not everyone) is the "stop caring" part.

            – Derek Elkins
            3 hours ago







          6




          6





          I disagree, being belittled on regular basis is stressful for any person.

          – Strader
          9 hours ago





          I disagree, being belittled on regular basis is stressful for any person.

          – Strader
          9 hours ago




          8




          8





          The best answer to "I could have done that in an hour" is "then you don't need me to do it". If he follows that by suggesting that you should quit if you think so then the answer should be "I don't think so, but if you do, you know what to do". This, of course, does not help in the stress mitigation issue, but at least puts limits into his insolence and allows to move forward onto the inevitable outcome.

          – busman
          8 hours ago






          The best answer to "I could have done that in an hour" is "then you don't need me to do it". If he follows that by suggesting that you should quit if you think so then the answer should be "I don't think so, but if you do, you know what to do". This, of course, does not help in the stress mitigation issue, but at least puts limits into his insolence and allows to move forward onto the inevitable outcome.

          – busman
          8 hours ago





          2




          2





          +1 from me. Just remember nothing is forever and this too shall pass. Instead of thinking "How am I going to live like this?" change your mindset and remember it is only a period of time (just like any other period of time of your life!). Just do your work, start looking for something else, and try not to think about it much. It is not your life after all, it is just a job and there are millions of them out there. It is not the only job in the world and they are not all like this!

          – Koray Tugay
          5 hours ago





          +1 from me. Just remember nothing is forever and this too shall pass. Instead of thinking "How am I going to live like this?" change your mindset and remember it is only a period of time (just like any other period of time of your life!). Just do your work, start looking for something else, and try not to think about it much. It is not your life after all, it is just a job and there are millions of them out there. It is not the only job in the world and they are not all like this!

          – Koray Tugay
          5 hours ago













          +1, lol, if the job is terrible what do they expect. I think as a manager, you have to lower your expectations on employees when the job is miserable.

          – Mark Rogers
          5 hours ago






          +1, lol, if the job is terrible what do they expect. I think as a manager, you have to lower your expectations on employees when the job is miserable.

          – Mark Rogers
          5 hours ago





          1




          1





          @Strader I'm pretty sure that is not true. Further, it is not true most commonly when people don't care what the belittling person is saying. The tricky part for many (but not everyone) is the "stop caring" part.

          – Derek Elkins
          3 hours ago





          @Strader I'm pretty sure that is not true. Further, it is not true most commonly when people don't care what the belittling person is saying. The tricky part for many (but not everyone) is the "stop caring" part.

          – Derek Elkins
          3 hours ago











          5














          1) As has been said elsewhere, quitting is always an option. It depends on what you are willing to sacrifice, but quitting is never "not an option".



          2) I don't know anything about French work culture, but in North America where I am also a software developer like your colleague, it is perfectly reasonable for an employee to job hunt while working. You don't have to quit and be out of a job before you start job hunting; when you know that you want to leave, start looking for another job, and then you can seamlessly move from one job to the next easily.



          My advice to your coworker (former co-worker?) would be to start job hunting ASAP, while continuing to work. He should continue to do his job to the best of his ability, and try to ignore the stupid stuff from his manager as best he can in the meantime, and then as soon as he finds something else, he should jump ship.






          share|improve this answer



























            5














            1) As has been said elsewhere, quitting is always an option. It depends on what you are willing to sacrifice, but quitting is never "not an option".



            2) I don't know anything about French work culture, but in North America where I am also a software developer like your colleague, it is perfectly reasonable for an employee to job hunt while working. You don't have to quit and be out of a job before you start job hunting; when you know that you want to leave, start looking for another job, and then you can seamlessly move from one job to the next easily.



            My advice to your coworker (former co-worker?) would be to start job hunting ASAP, while continuing to work. He should continue to do his job to the best of his ability, and try to ignore the stupid stuff from his manager as best he can in the meantime, and then as soon as he finds something else, he should jump ship.






            share|improve this answer

























              5












              5








              5







              1) As has been said elsewhere, quitting is always an option. It depends on what you are willing to sacrifice, but quitting is never "not an option".



              2) I don't know anything about French work culture, but in North America where I am also a software developer like your colleague, it is perfectly reasonable for an employee to job hunt while working. You don't have to quit and be out of a job before you start job hunting; when you know that you want to leave, start looking for another job, and then you can seamlessly move from one job to the next easily.



              My advice to your coworker (former co-worker?) would be to start job hunting ASAP, while continuing to work. He should continue to do his job to the best of his ability, and try to ignore the stupid stuff from his manager as best he can in the meantime, and then as soon as he finds something else, he should jump ship.






              share|improve this answer













              1) As has been said elsewhere, quitting is always an option. It depends on what you are willing to sacrifice, but quitting is never "not an option".



              2) I don't know anything about French work culture, but in North America where I am also a software developer like your colleague, it is perfectly reasonable for an employee to job hunt while working. You don't have to quit and be out of a job before you start job hunting; when you know that you want to leave, start looking for another job, and then you can seamlessly move from one job to the next easily.



              My advice to your coworker (former co-worker?) would be to start job hunting ASAP, while continuing to work. He should continue to do his job to the best of his ability, and try to ignore the stupid stuff from his manager as best he can in the meantime, and then as soon as he finds something else, he should jump ship.







              share|improve this answer












              share|improve this answer



              share|improve this answer










              answered 5 hours ago









              Ertai87Ertai87

              13k41635




              13k41635





















                  2














                  I have unfortunately been in this situation. I had been with the company for 2 years longer than my supervisor and she was totally clueless and attempting to fire all of her own employees to the point that I was the last developer standing (sounds kind of crazy when your job is to supervise those employees). She had actually written me up twice for things that were to basically cover her own issues. While this was going on I basically quit talking to her any more than I had to and had my headphone on at all times and sent an email to the HR department and the president of the company informing them of everything she had been doing. Luckily they finally saw her for what she was and she was the one fired in the end and I stayed on at that company for a few more years.



                  The basics being, do your job, document everything, and sooner or later those at the top will see what is happening and justice will be served, and if not hopefully a new position can be found soon.






                  share|improve this answer



























                    2














                    I have unfortunately been in this situation. I had been with the company for 2 years longer than my supervisor and she was totally clueless and attempting to fire all of her own employees to the point that I was the last developer standing (sounds kind of crazy when your job is to supervise those employees). She had actually written me up twice for things that were to basically cover her own issues. While this was going on I basically quit talking to her any more than I had to and had my headphone on at all times and sent an email to the HR department and the president of the company informing them of everything she had been doing. Luckily they finally saw her for what she was and she was the one fired in the end and I stayed on at that company for a few more years.



                    The basics being, do your job, document everything, and sooner or later those at the top will see what is happening and justice will be served, and if not hopefully a new position can be found soon.






                    share|improve this answer

























                      2












                      2








                      2







                      I have unfortunately been in this situation. I had been with the company for 2 years longer than my supervisor and she was totally clueless and attempting to fire all of her own employees to the point that I was the last developer standing (sounds kind of crazy when your job is to supervise those employees). She had actually written me up twice for things that were to basically cover her own issues. While this was going on I basically quit talking to her any more than I had to and had my headphone on at all times and sent an email to the HR department and the president of the company informing them of everything she had been doing. Luckily they finally saw her for what she was and she was the one fired in the end and I stayed on at that company for a few more years.



                      The basics being, do your job, document everything, and sooner or later those at the top will see what is happening and justice will be served, and if not hopefully a new position can be found soon.






                      share|improve this answer













                      I have unfortunately been in this situation. I had been with the company for 2 years longer than my supervisor and she was totally clueless and attempting to fire all of her own employees to the point that I was the last developer standing (sounds kind of crazy when your job is to supervise those employees). She had actually written me up twice for things that were to basically cover her own issues. While this was going on I basically quit talking to her any more than I had to and had my headphone on at all times and sent an email to the HR department and the president of the company informing them of everything she had been doing. Luckily they finally saw her for what she was and she was the one fired in the end and I stayed on at that company for a few more years.



                      The basics being, do your job, document everything, and sooner or later those at the top will see what is happening and justice will be served, and if not hopefully a new position can be found soon.







                      share|improve this answer












                      share|improve this answer



                      share|improve this answer










                      answered 5 hours ago









                      dmoore1181dmoore1181

                      1314




                      1314





















                          2














                          The immature way to deal with toxic people who you can't remove from your life, assuming you've already had a sit down with them and explained why their behavior is unacceptable, is to cut them down back.



                          For example, "I could have done that in an hour" should be answered with something like "You sure you're sober?" or "I'd like to see you try".



                          Refusing to pay for work should be met with "No money, no honey" and followed up by you not showing up to work the next day for whatever reason - probably sick time, it honestly doesn't matter if it gets approved or not because you're sending a message.



                          That piece of information you didn't get that put the entire team behind schedule should be something that the manager is never allowed to forget. Bring it up every time it might be relevant.



                          This is the wrong thing to do, but if you can't quit and really want things to work out, you're going to have to discipline your manager.



                          The professional thing to do is to document this behavior, send it to your managers superiors even though you know they won't do anything, and find another job. Look for a job while you still have one and then stop working with the toxic manager as soon as you get a new job. People like this are going to have a much bigger impact on your career than they have any right to if you keep working for them.






                          share|improve this answer

























                          • Unfortunately this (especially not showing up) might lead to negative consequences up to firing the employee on their fault (which would probably also leave them with no compensation).

                            – Ister
                            6 hours ago






                          • 2





                            Do you really need the word, "American" in the first sentence? The sentence seems correct for immature Canadians/Europeans/Australians, et al., too.

                            – donjuedo
                            5 hours ago











                          • @Ister it should, but it won't. If there's an exit interview at your company this manager will get fired over not paying you over time and the like. Managers generally have more to lose too. Given the rest of this toxic manager's stats, 50% of a team you count yourself, the manager won't do anything. The toxic manager really can't do anything without hurting themselves.

                            – Steve
                            5 hours ago






                          • 3





                            @Steve, I'm sorry I was not clear. Please drop the term "American" in your answer. It is inflammatory, unnecessary, and not relevant to the OP question or your answer. Thanks.

                            – donjuedo
                            5 hours ago







                          • 2





                            @Steve The original poster is in France. It's not relevant to include what an "immature" response would be in America. Most of this response is thus irrelevant. Please clean up this answer to stay relevant.

                            – acidnbass
                            5 hours ago















                          2














                          The immature way to deal with toxic people who you can't remove from your life, assuming you've already had a sit down with them and explained why their behavior is unacceptable, is to cut them down back.



                          For example, "I could have done that in an hour" should be answered with something like "You sure you're sober?" or "I'd like to see you try".



                          Refusing to pay for work should be met with "No money, no honey" and followed up by you not showing up to work the next day for whatever reason - probably sick time, it honestly doesn't matter if it gets approved or not because you're sending a message.



                          That piece of information you didn't get that put the entire team behind schedule should be something that the manager is never allowed to forget. Bring it up every time it might be relevant.



                          This is the wrong thing to do, but if you can't quit and really want things to work out, you're going to have to discipline your manager.



                          The professional thing to do is to document this behavior, send it to your managers superiors even though you know they won't do anything, and find another job. Look for a job while you still have one and then stop working with the toxic manager as soon as you get a new job. People like this are going to have a much bigger impact on your career than they have any right to if you keep working for them.






                          share|improve this answer

























                          • Unfortunately this (especially not showing up) might lead to negative consequences up to firing the employee on their fault (which would probably also leave them with no compensation).

                            – Ister
                            6 hours ago






                          • 2





                            Do you really need the word, "American" in the first sentence? The sentence seems correct for immature Canadians/Europeans/Australians, et al., too.

                            – donjuedo
                            5 hours ago











                          • @Ister it should, but it won't. If there's an exit interview at your company this manager will get fired over not paying you over time and the like. Managers generally have more to lose too. Given the rest of this toxic manager's stats, 50% of a team you count yourself, the manager won't do anything. The toxic manager really can't do anything without hurting themselves.

                            – Steve
                            5 hours ago






                          • 3





                            @Steve, I'm sorry I was not clear. Please drop the term "American" in your answer. It is inflammatory, unnecessary, and not relevant to the OP question or your answer. Thanks.

                            – donjuedo
                            5 hours ago







                          • 2





                            @Steve The original poster is in France. It's not relevant to include what an "immature" response would be in America. Most of this response is thus irrelevant. Please clean up this answer to stay relevant.

                            – acidnbass
                            5 hours ago













                          2












                          2








                          2







                          The immature way to deal with toxic people who you can't remove from your life, assuming you've already had a sit down with them and explained why their behavior is unacceptable, is to cut them down back.



                          For example, "I could have done that in an hour" should be answered with something like "You sure you're sober?" or "I'd like to see you try".



                          Refusing to pay for work should be met with "No money, no honey" and followed up by you not showing up to work the next day for whatever reason - probably sick time, it honestly doesn't matter if it gets approved or not because you're sending a message.



                          That piece of information you didn't get that put the entire team behind schedule should be something that the manager is never allowed to forget. Bring it up every time it might be relevant.



                          This is the wrong thing to do, but if you can't quit and really want things to work out, you're going to have to discipline your manager.



                          The professional thing to do is to document this behavior, send it to your managers superiors even though you know they won't do anything, and find another job. Look for a job while you still have one and then stop working with the toxic manager as soon as you get a new job. People like this are going to have a much bigger impact on your career than they have any right to if you keep working for them.






                          share|improve this answer















                          The immature way to deal with toxic people who you can't remove from your life, assuming you've already had a sit down with them and explained why their behavior is unacceptable, is to cut them down back.



                          For example, "I could have done that in an hour" should be answered with something like "You sure you're sober?" or "I'd like to see you try".



                          Refusing to pay for work should be met with "No money, no honey" and followed up by you not showing up to work the next day for whatever reason - probably sick time, it honestly doesn't matter if it gets approved or not because you're sending a message.



                          That piece of information you didn't get that put the entire team behind schedule should be something that the manager is never allowed to forget. Bring it up every time it might be relevant.



                          This is the wrong thing to do, but if you can't quit and really want things to work out, you're going to have to discipline your manager.



                          The professional thing to do is to document this behavior, send it to your managers superiors even though you know they won't do anything, and find another job. Look for a job while you still have one and then stop working with the toxic manager as soon as you get a new job. People like this are going to have a much bigger impact on your career than they have any right to if you keep working for them.







                          share|improve this answer














                          share|improve this answer



                          share|improve this answer








                          edited 5 hours ago

























                          answered 6 hours ago









                          SteveSteve

                          3,483722




                          3,483722












                          • Unfortunately this (especially not showing up) might lead to negative consequences up to firing the employee on their fault (which would probably also leave them with no compensation).

                            – Ister
                            6 hours ago






                          • 2





                            Do you really need the word, "American" in the first sentence? The sentence seems correct for immature Canadians/Europeans/Australians, et al., too.

                            – donjuedo
                            5 hours ago











                          • @Ister it should, but it won't. If there's an exit interview at your company this manager will get fired over not paying you over time and the like. Managers generally have more to lose too. Given the rest of this toxic manager's stats, 50% of a team you count yourself, the manager won't do anything. The toxic manager really can't do anything without hurting themselves.

                            – Steve
                            5 hours ago






                          • 3





                            @Steve, I'm sorry I was not clear. Please drop the term "American" in your answer. It is inflammatory, unnecessary, and not relevant to the OP question or your answer. Thanks.

                            – donjuedo
                            5 hours ago







                          • 2





                            @Steve The original poster is in France. It's not relevant to include what an "immature" response would be in America. Most of this response is thus irrelevant. Please clean up this answer to stay relevant.

                            – acidnbass
                            5 hours ago

















                          • Unfortunately this (especially not showing up) might lead to negative consequences up to firing the employee on their fault (which would probably also leave them with no compensation).

                            – Ister
                            6 hours ago






                          • 2





                            Do you really need the word, "American" in the first sentence? The sentence seems correct for immature Canadians/Europeans/Australians, et al., too.

                            – donjuedo
                            5 hours ago











                          • @Ister it should, but it won't. If there's an exit interview at your company this manager will get fired over not paying you over time and the like. Managers generally have more to lose too. Given the rest of this toxic manager's stats, 50% of a team you count yourself, the manager won't do anything. The toxic manager really can't do anything without hurting themselves.

                            – Steve
                            5 hours ago






                          • 3





                            @Steve, I'm sorry I was not clear. Please drop the term "American" in your answer. It is inflammatory, unnecessary, and not relevant to the OP question or your answer. Thanks.

                            – donjuedo
                            5 hours ago







                          • 2





                            @Steve The original poster is in France. It's not relevant to include what an "immature" response would be in America. Most of this response is thus irrelevant. Please clean up this answer to stay relevant.

                            – acidnbass
                            5 hours ago
















                          Unfortunately this (especially not showing up) might lead to negative consequences up to firing the employee on their fault (which would probably also leave them with no compensation).

                          – Ister
                          6 hours ago





                          Unfortunately this (especially not showing up) might lead to negative consequences up to firing the employee on their fault (which would probably also leave them with no compensation).

                          – Ister
                          6 hours ago




                          2




                          2





                          Do you really need the word, "American" in the first sentence? The sentence seems correct for immature Canadians/Europeans/Australians, et al., too.

                          – donjuedo
                          5 hours ago





                          Do you really need the word, "American" in the first sentence? The sentence seems correct for immature Canadians/Europeans/Australians, et al., too.

                          – donjuedo
                          5 hours ago













                          @Ister it should, but it won't. If there's an exit interview at your company this manager will get fired over not paying you over time and the like. Managers generally have more to lose too. Given the rest of this toxic manager's stats, 50% of a team you count yourself, the manager won't do anything. The toxic manager really can't do anything without hurting themselves.

                          – Steve
                          5 hours ago





                          @Ister it should, but it won't. If there's an exit interview at your company this manager will get fired over not paying you over time and the like. Managers generally have more to lose too. Given the rest of this toxic manager's stats, 50% of a team you count yourself, the manager won't do anything. The toxic manager really can't do anything without hurting themselves.

                          – Steve
                          5 hours ago




                          3




                          3





                          @Steve, I'm sorry I was not clear. Please drop the term "American" in your answer. It is inflammatory, unnecessary, and not relevant to the OP question or your answer. Thanks.

                          – donjuedo
                          5 hours ago






                          @Steve, I'm sorry I was not clear. Please drop the term "American" in your answer. It is inflammatory, unnecessary, and not relevant to the OP question or your answer. Thanks.

                          – donjuedo
                          5 hours ago





                          2




                          2





                          @Steve The original poster is in France. It's not relevant to include what an "immature" response would be in America. Most of this response is thus irrelevant. Please clean up this answer to stay relevant.

                          – acidnbass
                          5 hours ago





                          @Steve The original poster is in France. It's not relevant to include what an "immature" response would be in America. Most of this response is thus irrelevant. Please clean up this answer to stay relevant.

                          – acidnbass
                          5 hours ago











                          0














                          I agree with most of the answers here. In particular, quitting is always an option, be job hunting already, and stop caring about what the manager is saying (except, obviously, that which is necessary to do your job).



                          The only addition here is to operationalize the "stop caring" part a bit. The people for whom simply telling them to stop caring is enough to accomplish that are not the people who need to be told it as they will have already stopped caring.



                          My suggestion is to reframe the situation in your head. Specifically, reframe the manager as just an obstactle. Dealing with the manager's crap is just an (unpleasant) part of the job, no different from dealing with a broken printer, say. Sure it's annoying, but it isn't personal and your mind goes to questions like "Can I fix the printer? Can I get the printer to do what I want despite being broken? Can I work around the printer? Can I accomplish what I need without the printer?" You don't wonder why the printer is so unfair to you.



                          Here's a more or less equivalent alternative reframing. View your job like a video game. You're trying to do the best job you can. Your manager is like a bad guy trying to thwart you. Not a boss, mind you, just one of the regularly occurring goombas. You're not personally aggrieved by the fact that the goombas in Mario are trying to impede you. You just think about the best strategy to get past them. Again, your mindset when playing a video game is that given this is the way the world is set up, what is the best strategy to navigate through it?



                          A third that's slightly different but mostly the same is to imagine your manager as a big parrot. If a parrot said belittling things to you, you wouldn't take it personally. The parrot is just making noise, and what it says has much more to do with it than you. This is likely true for your manager too.



                          The common thread through all of these, just to lay it out, is that you are intentionally dehumanizing your manager. Doing this removes most of the weight from what they say.



                          Clearly, this is not an ideal situation, and I'm not suggesting the above in lieu of finding a better job.






                          share|improve this answer



























                            0














                            I agree with most of the answers here. In particular, quitting is always an option, be job hunting already, and stop caring about what the manager is saying (except, obviously, that which is necessary to do your job).



                            The only addition here is to operationalize the "stop caring" part a bit. The people for whom simply telling them to stop caring is enough to accomplish that are not the people who need to be told it as they will have already stopped caring.



                            My suggestion is to reframe the situation in your head. Specifically, reframe the manager as just an obstactle. Dealing with the manager's crap is just an (unpleasant) part of the job, no different from dealing with a broken printer, say. Sure it's annoying, but it isn't personal and your mind goes to questions like "Can I fix the printer? Can I get the printer to do what I want despite being broken? Can I work around the printer? Can I accomplish what I need without the printer?" You don't wonder why the printer is so unfair to you.



                            Here's a more or less equivalent alternative reframing. View your job like a video game. You're trying to do the best job you can. Your manager is like a bad guy trying to thwart you. Not a boss, mind you, just one of the regularly occurring goombas. You're not personally aggrieved by the fact that the goombas in Mario are trying to impede you. You just think about the best strategy to get past them. Again, your mindset when playing a video game is that given this is the way the world is set up, what is the best strategy to navigate through it?



                            A third that's slightly different but mostly the same is to imagine your manager as a big parrot. If a parrot said belittling things to you, you wouldn't take it personally. The parrot is just making noise, and what it says has much more to do with it than you. This is likely true for your manager too.



                            The common thread through all of these, just to lay it out, is that you are intentionally dehumanizing your manager. Doing this removes most of the weight from what they say.



                            Clearly, this is not an ideal situation, and I'm not suggesting the above in lieu of finding a better job.






                            share|improve this answer

























                              0












                              0








                              0







                              I agree with most of the answers here. In particular, quitting is always an option, be job hunting already, and stop caring about what the manager is saying (except, obviously, that which is necessary to do your job).



                              The only addition here is to operationalize the "stop caring" part a bit. The people for whom simply telling them to stop caring is enough to accomplish that are not the people who need to be told it as they will have already stopped caring.



                              My suggestion is to reframe the situation in your head. Specifically, reframe the manager as just an obstactle. Dealing with the manager's crap is just an (unpleasant) part of the job, no different from dealing with a broken printer, say. Sure it's annoying, but it isn't personal and your mind goes to questions like "Can I fix the printer? Can I get the printer to do what I want despite being broken? Can I work around the printer? Can I accomplish what I need without the printer?" You don't wonder why the printer is so unfair to you.



                              Here's a more or less equivalent alternative reframing. View your job like a video game. You're trying to do the best job you can. Your manager is like a bad guy trying to thwart you. Not a boss, mind you, just one of the regularly occurring goombas. You're not personally aggrieved by the fact that the goombas in Mario are trying to impede you. You just think about the best strategy to get past them. Again, your mindset when playing a video game is that given this is the way the world is set up, what is the best strategy to navigate through it?



                              A third that's slightly different but mostly the same is to imagine your manager as a big parrot. If a parrot said belittling things to you, you wouldn't take it personally. The parrot is just making noise, and what it says has much more to do with it than you. This is likely true for your manager too.



                              The common thread through all of these, just to lay it out, is that you are intentionally dehumanizing your manager. Doing this removes most of the weight from what they say.



                              Clearly, this is not an ideal situation, and I'm not suggesting the above in lieu of finding a better job.






                              share|improve this answer













                              I agree with most of the answers here. In particular, quitting is always an option, be job hunting already, and stop caring about what the manager is saying (except, obviously, that which is necessary to do your job).



                              The only addition here is to operationalize the "stop caring" part a bit. The people for whom simply telling them to stop caring is enough to accomplish that are not the people who need to be told it as they will have already stopped caring.



                              My suggestion is to reframe the situation in your head. Specifically, reframe the manager as just an obstactle. Dealing with the manager's crap is just an (unpleasant) part of the job, no different from dealing with a broken printer, say. Sure it's annoying, but it isn't personal and your mind goes to questions like "Can I fix the printer? Can I get the printer to do what I want despite being broken? Can I work around the printer? Can I accomplish what I need without the printer?" You don't wonder why the printer is so unfair to you.



                              Here's a more or less equivalent alternative reframing. View your job like a video game. You're trying to do the best job you can. Your manager is like a bad guy trying to thwart you. Not a boss, mind you, just one of the regularly occurring goombas. You're not personally aggrieved by the fact that the goombas in Mario are trying to impede you. You just think about the best strategy to get past them. Again, your mindset when playing a video game is that given this is the way the world is set up, what is the best strategy to navigate through it?



                              A third that's slightly different but mostly the same is to imagine your manager as a big parrot. If a parrot said belittling things to you, you wouldn't take it personally. The parrot is just making noise, and what it says has much more to do with it than you. This is likely true for your manager too.



                              The common thread through all of these, just to lay it out, is that you are intentionally dehumanizing your manager. Doing this removes most of the weight from what they say.



                              Clearly, this is not an ideal situation, and I'm not suggesting the above in lieu of finding a better job.







                              share|improve this answer












                              share|improve this answer



                              share|improve this answer










                              answered 3 hours ago









                              Derek ElkinsDerek Elkins

                              73449




                              73449





















                                  0















                                  Constantly failing to meet deadlines, which resulted in everyone else (not him) to stay overtime to try and makes things right (We once had to wait 3 week, for a vital piece of information, and when he delivered it to us, we were one week behind the deadline).




                                  There's a very simple answer to this. The deadline slips. And as much as managers love to say "but that's not acceptable", the answer is simply "but it's going to happen".



                                  And you don't just tell him this. You copy his manager, and his manager's manager. You say what the original plans were, and that because your manager started you all on this late, it'll take that long. And you make sure it takes that long!



                                  For bonus points, you can say "we're all prepared to do overtime to help out the company so it'll only slip by two weeks". Then you look proactive and helpful - but the deadline slip still happens, and management know it's down to your boss.




                                  Berating the team for using their rights, such as overtime pay.




                                  Now this is crazy stuff. If your contract says you get this, then you get it. If he pushes it, the next step is to call HR and say "John thinks we shouldn't be claiming overtime pay. Please can you tell me what our contract says? And please can you email that section of the contract to me and John, so we know for the future?" Especially getting email evidence.






                                  share|improve this answer



























                                    0















                                    Constantly failing to meet deadlines, which resulted in everyone else (not him) to stay overtime to try and makes things right (We once had to wait 3 week, for a vital piece of information, and when he delivered it to us, we were one week behind the deadline).




                                    There's a very simple answer to this. The deadline slips. And as much as managers love to say "but that's not acceptable", the answer is simply "but it's going to happen".



                                    And you don't just tell him this. You copy his manager, and his manager's manager. You say what the original plans were, and that because your manager started you all on this late, it'll take that long. And you make sure it takes that long!



                                    For bonus points, you can say "we're all prepared to do overtime to help out the company so it'll only slip by two weeks". Then you look proactive and helpful - but the deadline slip still happens, and management know it's down to your boss.




                                    Berating the team for using their rights, such as overtime pay.




                                    Now this is crazy stuff. If your contract says you get this, then you get it. If he pushes it, the next step is to call HR and say "John thinks we shouldn't be claiming overtime pay. Please can you tell me what our contract says? And please can you email that section of the contract to me and John, so we know for the future?" Especially getting email evidence.






                                    share|improve this answer

























                                      0












                                      0








                                      0








                                      Constantly failing to meet deadlines, which resulted in everyone else (not him) to stay overtime to try and makes things right (We once had to wait 3 week, for a vital piece of information, and when he delivered it to us, we were one week behind the deadline).




                                      There's a very simple answer to this. The deadline slips. And as much as managers love to say "but that's not acceptable", the answer is simply "but it's going to happen".



                                      And you don't just tell him this. You copy his manager, and his manager's manager. You say what the original plans were, and that because your manager started you all on this late, it'll take that long. And you make sure it takes that long!



                                      For bonus points, you can say "we're all prepared to do overtime to help out the company so it'll only slip by two weeks". Then you look proactive and helpful - but the deadline slip still happens, and management know it's down to your boss.




                                      Berating the team for using their rights, such as overtime pay.




                                      Now this is crazy stuff. If your contract says you get this, then you get it. If he pushes it, the next step is to call HR and say "John thinks we shouldn't be claiming overtime pay. Please can you tell me what our contract says? And please can you email that section of the contract to me and John, so we know for the future?" Especially getting email evidence.






                                      share|improve this answer














                                      Constantly failing to meet deadlines, which resulted in everyone else (not him) to stay overtime to try and makes things right (We once had to wait 3 week, for a vital piece of information, and when he delivered it to us, we were one week behind the deadline).




                                      There's a very simple answer to this. The deadline slips. And as much as managers love to say "but that's not acceptable", the answer is simply "but it's going to happen".



                                      And you don't just tell him this. You copy his manager, and his manager's manager. You say what the original plans were, and that because your manager started you all on this late, it'll take that long. And you make sure it takes that long!



                                      For bonus points, you can say "we're all prepared to do overtime to help out the company so it'll only slip by two weeks". Then you look proactive and helpful - but the deadline slip still happens, and management know it's down to your boss.




                                      Berating the team for using their rights, such as overtime pay.




                                      Now this is crazy stuff. If your contract says you get this, then you get it. If he pushes it, the next step is to call HR and say "John thinks we shouldn't be claiming overtime pay. Please can you tell me what our contract says? And please can you email that section of the contract to me and John, so we know for the future?" Especially getting email evidence.







                                      share|improve this answer












                                      share|improve this answer



                                      share|improve this answer










                                      answered 2 hours ago









                                      GrahamGraham

                                      3,9501719




                                      3,9501719





















                                          -2














                                          Just have a very short 1:1; tell your manager that you fell in love with him, that you have finally given up on having a relationship and just wanted to take this off your chest. Practice a lot so that you can say this with a straight face.



                                          Once you have declared your love, he will no longer be able to avoid feeling weird and uncomfortable every time he looks at you, forever. With some luck, communication will be cut to a minimum and you will never be asked again to stay in the office a minute longer than necessary. It's not against the law, and if he tries to fire you to spare himself the embarrassment you will get compensated more than adequately.
                                          It's a WIN-WIN, but both wins are for you.






                                          share|improve this answer


















                                          • 9





                                            This can go wrong in so many ways.

                                            – Colin 't Hart
                                            4 hours ago






                                          • 1





                                            That requires a lot of courage and good acting to go well. And even if it does, the boss is likely to force incidents that would allow him to fire the employee under whatever is the french equivalent of fair cause, even if he actually fires the person without fair cause claim. I would say this is reasonable advice if the person wants to be fired or is willing to risk it, not if he needs to stay.

                                            – Mefitico
                                            3 hours ago






                                          • 1





                                            upvote for the lolz, though.

                                            – Mefitico
                                            3 hours ago






                                          • 3





                                            In the US this would probably constitute sexual harassment.

                                            – catfood
                                            3 hours ago















                                          -2














                                          Just have a very short 1:1; tell your manager that you fell in love with him, that you have finally given up on having a relationship and just wanted to take this off your chest. Practice a lot so that you can say this with a straight face.



                                          Once you have declared your love, he will no longer be able to avoid feeling weird and uncomfortable every time he looks at you, forever. With some luck, communication will be cut to a minimum and you will never be asked again to stay in the office a minute longer than necessary. It's not against the law, and if he tries to fire you to spare himself the embarrassment you will get compensated more than adequately.
                                          It's a WIN-WIN, but both wins are for you.






                                          share|improve this answer


















                                          • 9





                                            This can go wrong in so many ways.

                                            – Colin 't Hart
                                            4 hours ago






                                          • 1





                                            That requires a lot of courage and good acting to go well. And even if it does, the boss is likely to force incidents that would allow him to fire the employee under whatever is the french equivalent of fair cause, even if he actually fires the person without fair cause claim. I would say this is reasonable advice if the person wants to be fired or is willing to risk it, not if he needs to stay.

                                            – Mefitico
                                            3 hours ago






                                          • 1





                                            upvote for the lolz, though.

                                            – Mefitico
                                            3 hours ago






                                          • 3





                                            In the US this would probably constitute sexual harassment.

                                            – catfood
                                            3 hours ago













                                          -2












                                          -2








                                          -2







                                          Just have a very short 1:1; tell your manager that you fell in love with him, that you have finally given up on having a relationship and just wanted to take this off your chest. Practice a lot so that you can say this with a straight face.



                                          Once you have declared your love, he will no longer be able to avoid feeling weird and uncomfortable every time he looks at you, forever. With some luck, communication will be cut to a minimum and you will never be asked again to stay in the office a minute longer than necessary. It's not against the law, and if he tries to fire you to spare himself the embarrassment you will get compensated more than adequately.
                                          It's a WIN-WIN, but both wins are for you.






                                          share|improve this answer













                                          Just have a very short 1:1; tell your manager that you fell in love with him, that you have finally given up on having a relationship and just wanted to take this off your chest. Practice a lot so that you can say this with a straight face.



                                          Once you have declared your love, he will no longer be able to avoid feeling weird and uncomfortable every time he looks at you, forever. With some luck, communication will be cut to a minimum and you will never be asked again to stay in the office a minute longer than necessary. It's not against the law, and if he tries to fire you to spare himself the embarrassment you will get compensated more than adequately.
                                          It's a WIN-WIN, but both wins are for you.







                                          share|improve this answer












                                          share|improve this answer



                                          share|improve this answer










                                          answered 4 hours ago









                                          MonoandaleMonoandale

                                          3,37252257




                                          3,37252257







                                          • 9





                                            This can go wrong in so many ways.

                                            – Colin 't Hart
                                            4 hours ago






                                          • 1





                                            That requires a lot of courage and good acting to go well. And even if it does, the boss is likely to force incidents that would allow him to fire the employee under whatever is the french equivalent of fair cause, even if he actually fires the person without fair cause claim. I would say this is reasonable advice if the person wants to be fired or is willing to risk it, not if he needs to stay.

                                            – Mefitico
                                            3 hours ago






                                          • 1





                                            upvote for the lolz, though.

                                            – Mefitico
                                            3 hours ago






                                          • 3





                                            In the US this would probably constitute sexual harassment.

                                            – catfood
                                            3 hours ago












                                          • 9





                                            This can go wrong in so many ways.

                                            – Colin 't Hart
                                            4 hours ago






                                          • 1





                                            That requires a lot of courage and good acting to go well. And even if it does, the boss is likely to force incidents that would allow him to fire the employee under whatever is the french equivalent of fair cause, even if he actually fires the person without fair cause claim. I would say this is reasonable advice if the person wants to be fired or is willing to risk it, not if he needs to stay.

                                            – Mefitico
                                            3 hours ago






                                          • 1





                                            upvote for the lolz, though.

                                            – Mefitico
                                            3 hours ago






                                          • 3





                                            In the US this would probably constitute sexual harassment.

                                            – catfood
                                            3 hours ago







                                          9




                                          9





                                          This can go wrong in so many ways.

                                          – Colin 't Hart
                                          4 hours ago





                                          This can go wrong in so many ways.

                                          – Colin 't Hart
                                          4 hours ago




                                          1




                                          1





                                          That requires a lot of courage and good acting to go well. And even if it does, the boss is likely to force incidents that would allow him to fire the employee under whatever is the french equivalent of fair cause, even if he actually fires the person without fair cause claim. I would say this is reasonable advice if the person wants to be fired or is willing to risk it, not if he needs to stay.

                                          – Mefitico
                                          3 hours ago





                                          That requires a lot of courage and good acting to go well. And even if it does, the boss is likely to force incidents that would allow him to fire the employee under whatever is the french equivalent of fair cause, even if he actually fires the person without fair cause claim. I would say this is reasonable advice if the person wants to be fired or is willing to risk it, not if he needs to stay.

                                          – Mefitico
                                          3 hours ago




                                          1




                                          1





                                          upvote for the lolz, though.

                                          – Mefitico
                                          3 hours ago





                                          upvote for the lolz, though.

                                          – Mefitico
                                          3 hours ago




                                          3




                                          3





                                          In the US this would probably constitute sexual harassment.

                                          – catfood
                                          3 hours ago





                                          In the US this would probably constitute sexual harassment.

                                          – catfood
                                          3 hours ago

















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